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look at "Adagio for strings" by Samuel Barber in "The English Patient".
No real point but - Adagio for strings is not even featured in The English Patient. [:D] Not that it changes your argument though... [:)]
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I don't understand how this thread has even got to this point. I'll be perfectly honest and say I thinks there's been some confusion regarding what is perceived criticism - I don't really see any from Guy. Just questions that are perfectly feasible, albeit slightly out of sync because over time he may have missed many, many conversations about Strings and sample libraries.
Bottom line is this for me at least: Sampled 'STRINGS' as opposed to other orchestral instrumentation has got to be one of the most difficult to get right. All the people who use string samples, particularly myself, have major problems getting it to sound the way they want it. One of the reasons may be high and unreasonable expectations compared to what one hears on TV/Film or CD.
Currently, string sound will only ever be a either a good or poor facsimile of the the above, dependent on variable quality of the library used and the person that's using it.
For example - here's a typical instance of 'you can't please all the people all the time'. In the September issue of of SOS, an article on Nainita Desai, who writes for film and tv, where she says, and I quote:-
"I recently bought the East West Quantum Leap String Orchestra, and found it to have a richer, fuller sound than the Vienna String Orchestra. which has a more European feel. The QLSO sound is also quite popular with clients who have described the scores I've used on it as sounding more 'Hollywood' or 'commercial'.The Vienna library is amazing but it's strength is also it's weakness because the possibilities are endless in terms of things like playing techniques. The QLSO is easier to use and that saves time:.....I am putting QLSO on everything!"
Source: Sound on Sound -September 2005
What does everyone think of that? And don't shoot me - I'm only the messenger - I never said it and don't necessarily subscribe to it.
But it shows there are many different points of view from many music writers across the board.
And trumpets are a devil to get right too!
[:D]
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@PaulR said:
"I recently bought the East West Quantum Leap String Orchestra, and found it to have a richer, fuller sound than the Vienna String Orchestra. which has a more European feel. The QLSO sound is also quite popular with clients who have described the scores I've used on it as sounding more 'Hollywood' or 'commercial'.The Vienna library is amazing but it's strength is also it's weakness because the possibilities are endless in terms of things like playing techniques. The QLSO is easier to use and that saves time:.....I am putting QLSO on everything!"
Source: Sound on Sound -September 2005
What does everyone think of that? And don't shoot me - I'm only the messenger - I never said it and don't necessarily subscribe to it.
[[:D]]
In some ways this is correct IMO.
However there are a few things to bear in mind.
1) QLSO always sounds the same (as far as I've heard), which is very limiting as far as different styles are concerned.
2) VSL does require more knowledge of mixing techniques regarding reverb/placement etc. so many composers are not up to the challenge. Using something that requires less effort is much quicker and probably more successful for many people. I think that one does need to know something about orchestras in order to use VSL successfully, and if a composer is too lazy to learn to read music, then they are unlikely to bother to study orchestration to any degree either (can of worms alert [[:|]] ).
3) Many clients wouldn't know a crotchet from a hatchet and are likely to be comparing what they hear with the traditional "sampled" string sound [[:D]] If the sound is compared with real orchestras then I would say that VSL has the edge.
Just a few thoughts while I'm trying to avoid work.
DG
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@DG said:
2) VSL does require more knowledge of mixing techniques regarding reverb/placement etc. so many composers are not up to the challenge. Using something that requires less effort is much quicker and probably more successful for many people. I think that one does need to know something about orchestras in order to use VSL successfully, and if a composer is too lazy to learn to read music, then they are unlikely to bother to study orchestration to any degree either (can of worms alert [[:|]] ).
3) Many clients wouldn't know a crotchet from a hatchet and are likely to be comparing what they hear with the traditional "sampled" string sound [[:D]] If the sound is compared with real orchestras then I would say that VSL has the edge.
Just a few thoughts while I'm trying to avoid work.
DG
Hehehe Daryl - this could turn out to be one of those fun threads. So true as to the above in a lot of ways.
I'm off to the golf course - I'm getting well out of the way of this one!
[[:D]] [6]
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Can we first get this ridiculous issue about "The damn English Patient" out of the way, it may not of had excerpts of the Adagio, who cares? The point was the style of music I was looking to accomplish. Although Christian's post was alright, not taking it seriously. [:)]
Paul did mention something important and I was about to bring it up. I did not go through all the threads to see what was already disussed on the subject. I was here about a year ago for a few weeks and in the last weeks I returned. If there was some conclusion on this issue why didn't somebody post me a link to a thread?
I still find it not respectful that people could not accept a criticism of something that was hardly a criticism but an OBSERVATION FROM MY EARS.
At the time I made that statement, I wasn't taking into account the hurtful feelings to VSL I may of caused, possibly pain and suffering! I wasn't rationalizing the outcome of this comment. Just an OBSERVATION from my part. Anybody else may disagree and think the VSL have the warmest strings they've ever heard, that fine. I'm not going to jump on there back.
The other thing is, I'm here not just to learn but to possibly help others. The only demo I ever sent to the head guys here, I was asked if they could put it in the demo section, I said no because I was using cleverly some things and did not want to reveal the potential of it to everybody. However, with time I'd be glad to exchange some tips. Not that I'm Zimmer or anything. But my point is I've been turned off lately.
One more thing. For the 10th time, I love VSL, and I would never trade it for something else, but I'm not insecure in saying that I would use better strings for the Adagio parts or a combination QLSO (which I don't know yet)
and VSL. As soon as you hear long string notes part of a slow melody with VSL it's a give away that it is not real strings and sounds like synt.
It is comments like mine that is going to make VSL improve the main weakness they have. Imagine if they could improve on that! But I'm still happy, appreciative, thankful etc... to what VSL has already done. Thank you, thank you, thank you VSL, you are great! But the slow strings...
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I still find it not respectful that people could not accept a criticism of something that was hardly a criticism but an OBSERVATION FROM MY EARS.
With the greatest of respect, I do indeed respectfully respect your opinion on the warmth of the VSL strings. Some of us though don't entirely agree with you in this respect.
That's what forums are all about: Debate, discussion, advice and more debate.
Respect!
Ghandi
P.S. - I'm so tempted to change my username now [:)]
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@cwillsher said:
Ghandi
P.S. - I'm so tempted to change my username now [[:)]]
Go ahead, Ghandi, would be cool. In a music forum I often ended up by giving people new user name, it was kind of amusing too. You could give me one, but with all that was said here lately and me not being a favorite among this group I fear what I'd get: The English Patient! [[:)]]
Guy
ps This thread reminds me of "Reality TV"...
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Let me tell you something pal: A few month ago, the team I was part of needed one, just one piece of information from VSL technical support. But the music supervisor had to spit out $260.00 to get a technician on line, only then he will talk to you. This was after he had bought tons from VSL, and for a whole team! But they claimed that they provided the help to set you up, after that it will cost you. Okay, but $260.00 for one question, this was highly important to us, and they had no sympathy what-so-ever. We were EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED with that response.
Hey Guy,
[[[:|]]] .... [[[:|]]]
I just looked through my email archive and found our correspondence from January and February this year.
Who was charging you $260,- for technical support? Someone from us here at VSL?!? I definetely haven´t and you gave me the impression you were quite satisfied with my responses and support!
Did I miss something?
Now I am somewhat disappointed by your post...
By the way, I noticed in our records that you never registered any of our products for yourself - is that correct?
Best, Marnix
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Uhm - may I suggest that we close this thread, as it becomes a little bit confusing what we are talking about here, actually ...?
This is _not_ to avoid any critcism, as I hopefully made clear in my previous postings. We will find out who was charging money for support, we all know by now that people have different aesthetical ideas about the sound of a string-section, and we loughed about the fact that virtual orchestration has reached a point where customers can't stand the realism [:)] ... and, of course, Cwillsher is "Ghandi", from now on.
Please, let's go on under more meaningfull Subject-Lines. Thanks, everybody!
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
@marnix said:
By the way, I noticed in our records that you never registered any of our products for yourself - is that correct?
Best, Marnix
Marnix!!!!!!!
I SAID I was working for part of a team and it was the music supervisor who had purchased the equipement and had made the phone call. I was wittness to that, about 2 month ago.I didn't feel I had to reveal any of that information to ANYBODY but seems you are doubting what I'm saying just like if I was some fraude! That equipement was purchased by him and I was getting information on the forum these days to purchasse my own stuff in the near future. The next thing we'll have the FBI on me. This is getting really upsetting!
And Marnix if you are disappointed in one of my post I'm extremely disappointed in your last post. There's NOTHING I SAID THAT WAS A LIE!
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Guy,
I didn´t want to insinuate anything, it was just that your post gave the impression we charge money for our support and that you should know from your personal experience that, of course, we don´t, as Herb points out as well. Not even for not-yet-registered users...[[;)]]
We´ll investigate in this $ 260,- thing - I really wonder where this comes from... [*-)]
No hard feelings?
Best, Marnix
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Marnix,
Well this would be a relief if that was an isolated case, we couldn't believe our ears when we couldn't get a technician on line unless we'd (he) put out $260.00. Because when I do purchase my own stuff I'll need regular assistance.
No hard feelings at all. [:D]
But I'd like to know something?
Is my initiation over yet? [[;)]]
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ps If possible I'd like to not get ... involved in this, unless you really need to.
I hope we will be able to find out what happened without compromising anybody, but we take this issue quite seriously! Do you by chance know who he was talking to?
But perhaps we should follow Dietz´ advice and continue this conversation via email!
Best, Marnix
PS: Oh yes, and please do not hesitate to contact me if you need help with our products! I´ll see if I can make you a bargain...(just kidding!!!) [[[;)]]]
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