Solo Strings Pure Tones

[trazom]

Hello! I'm somewhat new to the VSL samples and have a question about the solo strings set. Is it possible to use the samples to play pure intervals? For instance playing a leading tone slightly sharp, or raising the 3rd of a triad? This is common with most any solo instrument and I'm wondering if there is a work around in this library for it or if anyone has even ever needed to or thought about using it. I would like to make some authentic cello recordings and these sharp or flat tuned notes would add the extra "over the top" for me!

I want to be able to do this without use of a Mod wheel, so please let me know if anyone has any thoughts or if anyone has done this. Or is a Mod wheel MIDI message the only way to feasibly accomplish something like this? The main problem is that different pieces would call for different notes to be played at different intervals, so I don't think it is effective to "retune" the samples digitally before hand.

Any advice/comments welcome. If someone has a demonstration that shows this it would be greatly appreciated.

[rawmusic]

Depending on the package you use...

In Logic it should possible to set up a real-time transformer so that when you play a particular note it could introduce a little pitchbend automatically. You would have to set up transformers on all the other notes as well to cancel it though.

I think some of the other Logic instruments have the option for alternative tunings. I am not so sure about EXS24.

this is all assuming that you have Logic. In any of the DAWs you can play with the pitch bend wheel. I used it once for a piece of arabic sound-alike music, flattening the 3rd and 7th - sounded pretty convincing.

[trazom]

Thanks rawmusic. I'm actually using GS3 (Kontakt also) and would rather not have to purchase another sampler if need be. It's good to know that you have done this technique though. So my main question is that the samples themselves are tuned normal to say equal temperament and it is up to the user to create these flat or sharp tunings then, correct? Of course I can use a pitch bend in GS but I think it still wouldn't be quite the same as the instrument itself being recorded at the source with the alternate pitches. Or do you disagree? Anyway you can share a bit of your tuning demos?

[Dietz]

-> www.hermode.de

HTH,

[stephank]

Hey.

Some time ago i had the same problems with a piece where I needed quater tones.

I opened up a second chennal of the same instrument in GS and pitched it with the midi pitch to where I needed it. Then I played the whole part with my Cubase and programmed every note to the right channel. Worked fine. I hope this will help you.

Best regards, Stephan

[gugliel]

Hermode tuning looks interesting. But more simply, you can do two things to work with tuning and vsl solo strings: first, set all the &#^($ programs to allow pitch bend under midi control.

Enter the gs editor, open the gig file, right click on the instrument name, select properties, add a pitch bend value. Save the file (for gs3, this has the added benefit of getting your gig files in version 3 format). 2 semitones is a useful standard for orchestral work; for more dramatic motion, you could set more, or if you were intending to tune by hand on a joystick or wheel, then 1 semitone might be more controllable (i find tuning by joystick impossible to get right, no matter what the parameter is set)..

Then, in your midi file, you add in pitch bend (or "pitch wheel") messages. If you have 2 semitones configured, then it's about 39 (or 40) ticks per cent. To tune a perfect major triad IF YOUR SAMPLES ARE IN TUNE (which they aren't), you'd use 0 for the tonic, -540 for the third (14 cents down) and +78 for the fifth (2 cents up).

[rawmusic]

In case anyone is interested, you can do the same in EXS24 just by altering the number under the pitchbend setting just left of centre towards the top of the EXS24 main window. I do this frequently and then save the instrument back out.

[trazom]

Thanks everyone for the tips. Good to know there are some different methods to achieve these results. Much appreciated!

Question to Dietz, or others at VSL. Were the string recordings performed as a real string player's intonation would be played or were notes played to match a piano (equal temperament)? Is there some write up on the site that explains this?

Thank you again.

[mpower88]

Don't you just love it when you find out there is something new out there that is really cool that you would love to have, and then you find out that you already have it! Yeay. Thanks for the link Dietz.

Miklos.

[Mohrly]

gugliel wrote:
...But more simply, you can do two things to work with tuning and vsl solo strings: first...

Sorry for writing in own matters. The first question is whether you want to perform music in frequency ratios according or near to just intonation or if you want only to create experimental tuning. If "just intonation" and if you possess for instance logic7 you have only to select one of the different program variations of the Hermode Tuning feature and all tuning corrections will be done automatically. As a result of one or two mouse clicks. [:D]

Please weight: The problem are not only the correct vertical tuning ratios. You have also to weight the horizontal melodic line. If you will set the root of a chord to the default line and correct (only) the thirds and fifths (and sevenths and so on...), you will get hard frequency jumps by chord sequences of for instance C-E-G to A-C-E, to F-A-C to D-F-A and so on.

If you, on the other hand, will fix the frequency positions of the first notes and adjust only the followings, you will get a new problem. By a simple cadence of for instance C-E-G, F-A-C, D-F-A, G-B[H]-D, C-E-G you will drift 22 Cents deeper - and if you will repeat this 4 times the music will end in B[H] major. A nice effect: Modulation by tuning [[;)]]

Hermode Tuning avoids all these pitfalls by intelligents algorithms. Indeed, I know all algorthms of Hermode Tuning, but I never would dare to set the frequencies of a complex musical peace by hand.