@Leon Willett said:

Who the hell is Beethoven and what films has he done?

I think he scored a film called Immortal Beloved. The music was just great. But I haven't seen his name on any credits since. Hollywood must not be very receptive to that kind of talent these days or maybe he has a bad agent.

There's another film starring Ed Harris as some composer-dude that this Beethoven guy's doing the score for. I heard this Beethoven is kinda intense, slams things around when he doesn't get his way, so I won't be a bit surprised if they take him off the project and replace him with Zimmer.

Bill, Dave,

I'm going to covers my ears and pretend i haven't read any of this!

Regards,

Alex.

'On tour' in Tallinn Estonia.

@William said:

There's another film starring Ed Harris as some composer-dude that this Beethoven guy's doing the score for. I heard this Beethoven is kinda intense, slams things around when he doesn't get his way, so I won't be a bit surprised if they take him off the project and replace him with Zimmer.

Laughed out Loud at this as it would prove to be true no doubt.

@hermitage59 said:

Bill, Dave, I'm going to covers my ears and pretend i haven't read any of this!

Alex, you don't have to cover just yet, wait till the Zimmer replacement score comes out than make a very tight seal around the ears.

No, No, I can't stand it!
What a thought, and i feel ashamed for even reading such heretical teachings.
Come away my brothers, step away from the 'Zimmer frame' into the symphonic light.....? Save yourselves!
I'm going for an extra strong cup of tea, just to steady the nerves......

Regards,


Alex.
[[:|]]

At one of Scott Smalley's seminers, someone asked whether the idea of using woodwinds (which he acknowledges have their place, yet still affectionately terms, the "barnyard animals" of the orchestra) to reinforce upper partials as Beethoven did was helpful, or just too time consuming.

He replied, "Beethoven wouldn't be able to get work in Hollywood."

Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique!

(The scene is set in Beethoven's music room, and i 've appeared to find him writing the ninth.)

'Er, Hello Mister Beethoven. This a great privilege for me. Yes i'll pass the ink.'
.....................
'Yes, i'm sorry to interrupt, i won't stay long.'
....................
'I'm shouting already, aahh, now i remember, ok, read my lips.'
....................
'What's the future like? Well, it's a little hard to explain, but keeping it simple, you're considered by the most intelligent musicians to be the greatest composer ever.'
...................
'Where did i get my jacket? Well, it's a little embarrassing really. I bought in a shop called Tesco's. A supermarket.'
..................
'What's a supermarket? Like a big shop.'
.................
'What's a checkout, erm, well never mind. I'm here to shake the hand of the master of classical music. Yes this is a copy of your third symphony.
I carry it everywhere. I know it's in English. Transalation is not too expensive in the future, no. Printing press? It would take too long. Electricity? Erm. Anyway, may i shake your hand?
Oh is say, this is a privilege.'
..........................
'Who? Sorry, don't know him very well.'
.........................
'Is he famous in the future? Well, sort of, not as much as you though.'
.........................
'Who gets played more? Erm, it depends. Some people seem to like his little ditties, but it's the most intelligent of people who appreciate your grand visions in music.'
........................
'Sorry?'
.......................
'Well, we know him as someone who hung around music halls and theatres, and wrote light music. Oh yes, he was drunk a lot.'
......................
'Yes, i knew you'd agree. Entertainment, hey? I agree, audiences can be fickle. Listen, Ludwig, about this 8th bar...Excuse me? Does he get played in big halls? Well, erm sometimes, but only to ordinary people, not nobility as your music deserves.'
.....................
'I have to go now Ludwig, and don't worry about the future, you're the boss.
Just one more question if i may?'
.....................
'Thank you, Ludwig, and i appreciate the time you've given me.

Just who is this Wolfgang Mozart you keep talking about?'

[[:|]]

Didn't Mozart hear the young Beethoven and say something about a
bright future ahead of him?

I absolutely agree on Berlioz, and it is another one that changed the history of the symphony.

1. Bruckner 8th

2. Bruckner 9th

3. Beethoven 3rd

4. Mahler 9th

5. Tchaikovsky 6th

6. Brahms 4th

7. Shostakovich 7th

8. Shostakovich 8th

9. Schumann 4th

10. Schubert 8th

Bruckner's 3rd, 5th, and 6th are also quite dear to me. The rest of Beethoven's and Brahms' symphonies are also clear contenders really. If Mahler had completed his 10th, some reordering would have been necessary (though that first movement counts for more than many complete works by others).

1. Beethoven 5

2. Beethoven 3

3. Mozart 41

4. Beethoven 9

5. Mozart 40

6. Brahms 4

7. Haydn 104

8. Prokofief 5

9. Mahler 6

10. Bruckner 7

Confess to much hesitation for almost all of these! Easier would be a top 50 unordered. And I'm very fond of all 4 Schumann symphonies, wonderful music in each one. Vaughn Williams, Sibelius, Dvorak. Mozart 39, more Haydn, more Bruckner, more Mahler, more Brahms.

@William said:

Didn't Mozart hear the young Beethoven and say something about a bright future ahead of him?

Mozart said everything about Beethoven's future in a single brilliant sentance: He will make a big noise.

He encapsulates the composers future:

1. Beethoven's music was criticized at first as being noisy.
2. Beethoven's rise to popularity a big noise media occurance (the heart of Mozart's response)
3. Beethoven's largeness undiminished throughout time and still casting the biggest shadow.

To my dear untrained ears, the order is...

1. Shostakovich's Chamber Symphony in C Minor (ok, maybe it's not for full orchestra and was originally a quartet, but it has the word "symphony" in the title!

2. Tchaikovsky's - 4th

3. Saint-Saens - 3rd

4. Beethoven's - 7th

5. Shostakovich's - 11th

6. Shostakovich's - 7th

7. Tchaikovsky's - 2nd

8. Dvorak's - 9th

9. Sibelius' - 4th

10. Dvorak's - 7th

Horse Opera - I doubt your ears are untrained if you've heard those pieces!

Dvorak 7th - yes, that can't be left off the list which has grown. I like hearing these ideas because it makes me go back to the works (if I haven't recently) and it is interesting how there is somewhat of a consensus, which I wasn't sure was possible. Also these ideas are divorced from the standard academic concepts which are always limited by musicological/historical biases. For exampled, a professor would rarely rank Saint Saens on the same list with Beethoven, and that professor would be dead wrong.

I confess that I did consider the Mozart 41 also though it would have contradicted my pontification.

Gugliel's list is quite good I think and bless Jc5 for getting Schumann in there. I think a list of the top twenty composers would be nice. Britten and Copeland would perhaps get their due. Copeland's 3rd is a must listen in the repetoire. Also nice seeing Borodin in there.

All is forgiven on the Mozart 41. Mozart's 250th birthday is Jan 27 2006. I know because it will be my 50th (being a few hours from being born 200 years to the day from the fellow: the only thing I share with the great genius no doubt.)

Dave, with my thoroughly british sense of humour, there so much i could say here!

Suffice to say, what's a few hours between geniuses? (Could that be Genies?)

Regards,

Alex!
[H]