OK...this may go on to be a can of worms but ... whatever.
Many people are posting requests for fix-it solutions concerning reverb and eq to make their arrangements sound more real. I have read all these posts in the hope that I will glean something to transform my arrangements. I, too, am striving for the ultimate virtual ensemble.
I discovered the other day that VSL arrangements can sound GREAT without any reverb or eq (as well as with reverb and eq - hang fire!). I was working on a piece without realising that I had muted the reverb returns on my mixer. What I got was a gently ambient, very up close, detailed and vibrant sound that I really quite liked. It wasn't the sound I needed ultimately, but I liked it nonetheless. VSL afterall sampled their instruments in the same space with a little room sound on it. The recording is of the quality that you should be able to use the sounds naked if you like. Personally I prefer a cotton T-shirt and jogging pants!
This particular arrangement was not very complicated but did have a lot of hours in it from handwriting the score first, checking each line individually to make sure that it was believable once I had played it in, getting a good balance from a listeners point of view and then tweaking, tweaking, tweaking. The sound was of being in a smallish chamber with the musicians, rather than in the Taj Mahal, but was wonderfully rich and real.
Finally adding the reverb in varying amounts to sink particular instruments back or bring them forward, and subsequent application of eq did nothing but enhance the picture, in fact it made it very beautiful, but the initial sound was very good.
So my point is this: I wonder if those who are having real problems getting their stuff sounding as great as they deserve for their hard work are starting their post-prod work from the wrong place. As they say, you can't polish a turd.
I have heard some amazing stuff from forum users here, and hats off to you guys. I have also heard (here and elsewhere) work that suffers from over thick arranging, poor internal balance, lack of awareness of ensemble generally, inappopriate orchestrations, drowning in reverb...etc..etc..etc. And not just with virtual groups! If real live musicians can't make something sound nice, then one might have to look at the music itself.
In many of the demos on this website, the people responsible for mixing are often different from the actual programmers. I am sure this is no coincidence. It takes a lot of love and energy to create a piece of music. Some of this love and energy is lost in the technology essential to the VSL process. To then, spent of love and energy, have to separate yourself from the music and with fresh ears, have the knowledge and patience to perfect the acoustic space around your piece is quite hard.
Then there is the reverb itself. There is a big difference between good and bad reverb. Convolution reverbs are not always the answer. I have to admit to being quite disappointed with Space Designer in logic. They impart a very strong character to the sound. Until I find a better solution (without being able to spend a good deal of money) I am using the best quality reverb in my mixing desk (Yamaha 01V96) which is a true stereo reverb, rather than a one-in, two-out. A friend owns a couple of expensive lexicon units, which are, even from a layman's standpoint, very nice, and amazingly better than a standard reverb plugin in a good DAW.
The paradox: Whilst the big sound picture is not just about the notes, it is ALL about the notes.
This posting is not intended to upset anyone. I have mentioned no names. It is perhaps to provoke some intelligent replies from people who don't feel personally targetted by these thoughts.
Many people are posting requests for fix-it solutions concerning reverb and eq to make their arrangements sound more real. I have read all these posts in the hope that I will glean something to transform my arrangements. I, too, am striving for the ultimate virtual ensemble.
I discovered the other day that VSL arrangements can sound GREAT without any reverb or eq (as well as with reverb and eq - hang fire!). I was working on a piece without realising that I had muted the reverb returns on my mixer. What I got was a gently ambient, very up close, detailed and vibrant sound that I really quite liked. It wasn't the sound I needed ultimately, but I liked it nonetheless. VSL afterall sampled their instruments in the same space with a little room sound on it. The recording is of the quality that you should be able to use the sounds naked if you like. Personally I prefer a cotton T-shirt and jogging pants!
This particular arrangement was not very complicated but did have a lot of hours in it from handwriting the score first, checking each line individually to make sure that it was believable once I had played it in, getting a good balance from a listeners point of view and then tweaking, tweaking, tweaking. The sound was of being in a smallish chamber with the musicians, rather than in the Taj Mahal, but was wonderfully rich and real.
Finally adding the reverb in varying amounts to sink particular instruments back or bring them forward, and subsequent application of eq did nothing but enhance the picture, in fact it made it very beautiful, but the initial sound was very good.
So my point is this: I wonder if those who are having real problems getting their stuff sounding as great as they deserve for their hard work are starting their post-prod work from the wrong place. As they say, you can't polish a turd.
I have heard some amazing stuff from forum users here, and hats off to you guys. I have also heard (here and elsewhere) work that suffers from over thick arranging, poor internal balance, lack of awareness of ensemble generally, inappopriate orchestrations, drowning in reverb...etc..etc..etc. And not just with virtual groups! If real live musicians can't make something sound nice, then one might have to look at the music itself.
In many of the demos on this website, the people responsible for mixing are often different from the actual programmers. I am sure this is no coincidence. It takes a lot of love and energy to create a piece of music. Some of this love and energy is lost in the technology essential to the VSL process. To then, spent of love and energy, have to separate yourself from the music and with fresh ears, have the knowledge and patience to perfect the acoustic space around your piece is quite hard.
Then there is the reverb itself. There is a big difference between good and bad reverb. Convolution reverbs are not always the answer. I have to admit to being quite disappointed with Space Designer in logic. They impart a very strong character to the sound. Until I find a better solution (without being able to spend a good deal of money) I am using the best quality reverb in my mixing desk (Yamaha 01V96) which is a true stereo reverb, rather than a one-in, two-out. A friend owns a couple of expensive lexicon units, which are, even from a layman's standpoint, very nice, and amazingly better than a standard reverb plugin in a good DAW.
The paradox: Whilst the big sound picture is not just about the notes, it is ALL about the notes.
This posting is not intended to upset anyone. I have mentioned no names. It is perhaps to provoke some intelligent replies from people who don't feel personally targetted by these thoughts.
