Studio or Synchron with Mir Pro 3d

[DJB78ldn]

Hi, I've recently bought Mir Pro 3d to use with my non vsl libraries and they sound superb - a game changer for me! For my percussion I'm using the old Spitfire Percussion library which tends to sound a bit boomy with the timps and bass drum with Mir - I know I can eq this but would prefer something a bit more out of the box.

I've read elsewhere that there's no point using the Synchron libraries with Mir as they already have the mic placements to give that effect - is that correct? Would I be better off getting vsl Stage percussion and using dry with Mir to get that clean and expansive sound (I've got the Room 6 venue)?

Thanks

[jamesie]

With Synchron it‘s lots more tricky ((to much room in the sample so a EQ don’t really help) to work with Mir Pro 3D but sometimes with interesting results at least for me - spaacey - Studio or Synchronized with „MIR unprozessed“ are made for work with MIR Pro. In the end of the story I like Studio libraries more with MIR Pro 3D. So, I would say go with Studio Percussion and if that is not enough with instruments of Synchron Percussion which are not part from the Studio one. Both are really good.

[Beat Kaufmann]

Hi DJB78ldn

The newer SYNCHRON libraries were recorded in the rooms of the SYNCHRON stage. As a rule, you will receive the instruments in question recorded with different microphones (e.g. Close, Mid, Room... or similar) The full libraries naturally contain more different microphones than the standard libraries or even the reduced libraries, which then become cheaper and cheaper.
By combining different microphones and using the panners in the mixer of the SYNCHRON player, you can actually place the instruments practically anywhere on the SYNCHRON-Stage. With a large number of presets, you can of course save time or use the presets as a convenient starting point and adapt them to your personal requirements.

The older STUDIO libraries (initially for the Vienna Instrument (VI)) were originally recorded in the SILENT-stage. At that time, the aim was to have as little room information as possible in the samples so that the instruments could then be acoustically placed in any desired room - e.g. with MIR.
Over time the Vienna Instrument Player was replaced by the SYNCHRON Player and the VI libraries were programmed for the SYNCHRON Player. So that the VI libraries in the SYNCHRON player could be distinguished from the real SYNCHRON libraries, the libraries were called SYNCHRON-ized libraries. Today they have clearly been renamed once more: Studio Libraries - because they do not contain any room information themselves.
However, it is important to know that the adapted Studio Libraries can still be used as original dry (with the preset “default”). But VSL provides a lot of presets with which the actually dry libraries can be placed in the SYNCHRON stage via Convolution-IR from the silent stage as if they had been recorded there. So you don't necessarily need MIR for these libraries either.

Especially when you use presets, everything fits together.
So your question about which type of library to buy cannot really be answered if you apply your criteria.

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I can tell you how and when I use the two libraries.

If I want a general and natural orchestral sound, then I use SYNCHRON libraries because the samples were excellently recorded in a good room, so you don't really need to add anything except a little reverb tail.

Example (Do you hear the Room of the SYNCHRON-Stage - specially with the Brass Instruments? (a bit overdone, of course))

If there is a solo instrument that should play acoustically close to the listener and clearly in front of the orchestra, then the (close) beautifully and dry recorded STUDIO Instruments are ideal for this.

Example (Note the beautiful presence of the two wooden flutes and how they separate well from the rest of the SYNCHRON Orchestra)

However, many of the new single-instrument SYNCHRON libraries are also suitable as solo instruments with their close and mid microphones.

Example (The new Solo Violin (played mainly with the lyric articulation)

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The last example could be an argument for the SYNCHRON libraries: With these libraries you get the latest technology (often 3 or more Mics), of course. Over the years, VSL has also gained a lot of experience in terms of articulation options and natural recording techniques for instruments...

So unfortunately it's up to you to decide. In any case it's important to know: With the mixer preset default you always get the original recorded sample - with Studio a dry one - and with SYNCHRON the original recording signals depending on the microphone from close to far.

Hope that helps a bit

Beat

[nick.halliwell]

As always, @Beat Kaufmann has explained this beautifully - the one correction I'd suggest is that the mixer preset you need is the one called "99 MIR Unprocessed". The Studio libraries were all deliberately recorded as dry as possible, this was the way the market was 15-20 years ago. More recently the buzzword is "cinematic" which seems now to imply a big, reverberant room, i.e. the market's done a volte-face, and the Synchron libraries are like that. They do include close mics which have less of the room but it's still definitely there.

Which is best for you depends largely on the sound you're after. If you want the sound of instruments playing in a large scoring-stage ambience ("cinematic!") then Synchron is the way to go without a doubt. As has been said above, it's not that they can't be used with MIR (I do it sometimes, you need to turn off Dry Signal Handling) but the results are less predictable. They can be fantastic or they can be... well, a bit muddy.

Personally I have almost all of the Studio libraries now. I also have some Synchron. This is because most of the time I'm after a sound that's a bit smaller in terms of room size - I'm not making music that's specifically either classical or intended for film and MIR is a key part of my workflow and the Studio libraries are intended for MIR, whereas the Synchron ones aren't (though, as I say, it's not impossible). Similarly, MIR works best with dry libraries and sound sources from other developers or recorded live. Most of Spitfire's libraries are quite reverberant, often recorded at AIR but they also have some - they also use the word "Studio" - that are pretty dry and ought to work well. You can use almost any sound source with MIR, but the drier the source, the more control you'll have over what MIR will do with it.

If using Synchron libraries, or libraries from other developers not recorded dry, it's best to go with Close or Solo mics. For instance, I have the Full Elite Strings and that has close mics on two players in each section. While not entirely dry I find these work pretty well in MIR. The Duality Strings libraries have a smaller section recorded much drier and those also work pretty well. However I often overlay Solo Strings (previously the VI version, now the Studio). It takes a bit of experimentation but what you gain with the Studio series is the flexibility: you can add your own reverb, so it's particularly useful when you're after a smaller ambience.

There's no "this is better than that" here. It's entirely down to what you're after. My advice is to listen very carefully to the audio and video demos and see whether the Synchron sound is what you're looking for. If it is then look no further. I'd also recommend asking VSL for demo licences and trying them out, 30 days is plenty of time, VSL are one of the few developers who allow this and the policy has been responsible for me spending a great deal of money over the years... 😀

HTH

Nick

[DJB78ldn]

Thanks very much all, that's all great advice! I'm not currently using Mir correctly I think with the libraries I'm using it for, so will go back and review.

[Beat Kaufmann]

Hi DJB78ldn

Just used the Studio Percussion Timpani and not those from the Synchron Library. Somehow they fit better...
I thought of you 😉

(Backing track)

All the best

Beat

[DJB78ldn]

Very nice 😊 I've been experimenting and tend to like adjusting the global wet/dry parameter to 15%. For the sound I'm looking for that seems to hit the spot.

[Beat Kaufmann]

I remove the reverb plug-in from all instruments in the SYNCHRON player so that only the positions (including room depth) remain.
Finally, I add a single reverb tail to the output of the DAW, which glues everything together nicely. And yes, it's between 15 - 20% wet for me too. The reverb time is between 1.5 - 2.2 seconds, depending on the style of music.

Beat