Custom instrument directivity profiles? Is that possible (or feature request)

[mbishop]

Hi VSL,

I use another (unnamed) reverb which allows me to specify in which directions (relative to the instrument player's orientation) sound radiates. So I can specify more sound radiating behind the player for French Horns, or to the ceiling for a Tuba, or in the direction of the players gaze for Trumpets. One thing I like about this is that if I position and rotate the "player", the radiation patterns, being relative to the player, will also shift. For example, if I took that French Horn player and made them looking at the back wall, the radiation pattern would now radiate more strongly to the conductor.

Is it possible to create such a custom profile for a "player" in MIR? I know I can rotate a player manually to change the direction the sound radiates, but I also like to use the "automatically points to microphone setting" and move players around on the stage. If I wanted the horn sound to radiate to the rear of the stage, I can't use the "automatically points to microphone setting" setting because it will always cause the sound to radiate to the microphone. I have to manually adjust the player direction in that case.

I'm assuming these radiation patterns are what is in the "instrument directivity profile" that MIR supplies for VSL instruments. Is it possible to make custom ones for instruments that I might bring into MIR?

_ michael

[rAC]

You could make your own custom profile.

[Dietz]

@mbishop said:
I know I can rotate a player manually to change the direction the sound radiates, but I also like to use the "automatically points to microphone setting"

Hi Michael,

I don't really get what you're after. 8-) Either an instrument's radiation pattern points towards the Main Microphone, or it doesn't. That's what the MIR Instrument Icon is all about, in the end. I assume that what you are actually asking for is the separation of the Icon's acoustic center axis and its visual appearance to "make the ensemble look pretty" (i.e. everything aimed at the conductor), aren't you?

But anyway - while it's not possible to create custom Directivity Profiles from scratch, you can always use MIR's General Purpose Instrument Profiles. They were made for a very diverse set of use cases and offer all (or even more) options than the radiation management of that "other" 😉 reverb:

... sometimes people mistake these characterisations as microphone polar patterns, but they are meant to be seen exactly the other way 'round: They define how much energy is radiated from the source into the room, in relation to the Icon's main axis (a.k.a. "the player's nose").

HTH,

[Dietz]

PS: The actual Directivity Profiles used by MIR for VSL's own instruments are much more complex than that and are based on several years of research, measurement and development.

-> https://www.vsl.co.at/manuals/mir-pro/think-mir#instrument-directivity-profiles

[mbishop]

I don't really get what you're after. 8-) Either an instrument's radiation pattern points towards the Main Microphone, or it doesn't. That's what the MIR Instrument Icon is all about, in the end. I assume that what you are actually asking for is the separation of the Icon's acoustic center axis and its visual appearance to "make the ensemble look pretty" (i.e. everything aimed at the conductor), aren't you?

Yes, but for me, it's not about looking pretty. I'd like to be able to move the instruments around to try out different stage configurations. If I have the Horn's radiation pattern pointing in the opposite direction of the mic, and then move them from the left to the right of the stage, then I have to re-rotate them so they are still facing in the opposite direction of the mic. It's not a terribly big deal, just a small bump in the workflow.

While it's not possible to create custom Directivity Profiles from scratch, you can always use MIR's General Purpose Instrument Profiles. They were made for a very diverse set of use cases and offer all (or even more) options than the radiation management of that "other" 😉 reverb.

That's fantastic, and yes, that went completely over my head. In the same way that I find MIR's UI for the orientation of the instrument on stage highly intuitive, I find the UI on the other reverb for editing the directivity profile also highly intuitive.

Can you expand on how the General Purpose Instrument Profiles offer more options than just radiation management? It's more than just choosing something from that popup?

It would be useful to have a table of recommendations of those general purpose profiles for instrument types. For example (disregarding the accuracy of the example here) "We recommend the 'High Directivity 3D' on Brass and 'Bi-Polar' on Bass Drums". I love that the built-ins are very accurate and easy to use because they map directly to VSL instruments, but I'd love more help when using it on the other instruments I might want to put in there. I understand that there is so very much more inside the instrument presets than just general directivity.

Every time I read the Think MIR! section in the legacy manual, I am blown away by how much research and thought has gone into all of this. I wish that section was in the current manual because it really sets the stage nicely. I want VSL to put that right in front of my face because I forget that very useful material all the time 😊

[Dietz]

@mbishop said:
Can you expand on how the General Purpose Instrument Profiles offer more options than just radiation management? It's more than just choosing something from that popup?

What I meant to say is that you can have more options in MIR due to the fact that the Icon also controls stereo width, offers bi-polar patterns (i.e. to the sides only), and so on.

@mbishop said:
It would be useful to have a table of recommendations of those general purpose profiles for instrument types. For example (disregarding the accuracy of the example here) "We recommend the 'High Directivity 3D' on Brass and 'Bi-Polar' on Bass Drums". I love that the built-ins are very accurate and easy to use because they map directly to VSL instruments, but I'd love more help when using it on the other instruments I might want to put in there. I understand that there is so very much more inside the instrument presets than just general directivity.

Well, that's the reason why I came up with the idea of specific, painstakingly measured Directivity Profiles back then: There is no easy answer to your question.

As an "acoustic" rule-of-thumb we could say, the higher the main register of an instrument, the sharper its projection into the room will be. Or put the other way 'round: The bassier an instrument, the wider the Directivity Profile should be (... Wide Cardioid, Omni).

But even then, it still depends on the particular physical design how an instrument will interact with its acoustic environment. So the best answer I can give is: start with the most logical General Purpose profile, but be prepared to experiment a bit later on, as the effect will be different from each position on stage, not to mention the even more obvious differences between the venues themselves.

A good starting point is the default Cardioid profile. It will offer a plausible radiation pattern for most instruments, and the effect is clearly audible without becoming unpredictable when rotating the instrument.

HTH,

[mbishop]

Thanks!

[Dietz]

PS: I just stumbled across an older posting of mine covering a similar topic:

-> https://forum.vsl.co.at/topic/60878/realistic-settings-for-3rd-party-signals/2?_=1732642492009

[mbishop]

@Dietz said:

PS: I just stumbled across an older posting of mine covering a similar topic:

-> https://forum.vsl.co.at/topic/60878/realistic-settings-for-3rd-party-signals/2?_=1732642492009

Perfect. Thanks for going to the trouble of posting that!