Harmonics playback in Dorico

[Cadenza]

Hi!

Wonder how to deal with string harmonics, both natural and artificial. Since the harmonics in the strings Synchronised SE is already sounding one octave above notated, I have problem to make the correct notation in Dorico. Any solution to this?

[andi]

Hello Cadenza!

As far as I can see Dorico treats artificial harmonics like natural harmonics. They both use the same "Playback Technique" "Natural harmonic 1". In the expression map there is an entry for artificial harmonics to sound an octave lower to compensate the octave shift in the preset, but unfortunately this "Playback Technique" does not get assigned to artificial harmonics. Natural harmonics are played correctly, so adding an entry for natural harmonics to sound an octave lower, would make the natural harmonics sound in the wrong octave. If you are only using artificial harmonics in your score, you could edit the expression map and transpose the Natural harmonic entries down by 12 half-tones.

Best regards,
Andi

[Cadenza]

Hi Andi!

Thanks! As I can see there are two entries of harmonics in the expression map, one for natural and one for artificial harmonics. I made the natural to be sounding an octave lower and now it works with the notation, both with sounding and fingered notation.

Best,

Anders

[Cadenza]

@andi said:

Hello Cadenza!

As far as I can see Dorico treats artificial harmonics like natural harmonics. They both use the same "Playback Technique" "Natural harmonic 1". In the expression map there is an entry for artificial harmonics to sound an octave lower to compensate the octave shift in the preset, but unfortunately this "Playback Technique" does not get assigned to artificial harmonics. Natural harmonics are played correctly, so adding an entry for natural harmonics to sound an octave lower, would make the natural harmonics sound in the wrong octave. If you are only using artificial harmonics in your score, you could edit the expression map and transpose the Natural harmonic entries down by 12 half-tones.

Best regards,
Andi

Hi again,

I thought I solved the problem, but when I checked the harmonics playback it wasn't. Since I'm using both natural and artificial (see screenshot), it's quite complicated - what do I have to change in the expression map to get both sounding right?

Best,
Anders

[andi]

Hello Anders!

As mentioned in my previous post, Dorico uses the same playback technique for artificial harmonics and natural harmonics. Unfortunately this means that it's not possible to have them both sound in the correct octave. At least I wouldn't know how.

Best regards,
Andi

[mducharme]

Have you tried using the octave shift property for the clef change? It was just an idea that came to mind.

It is normally meant for the ottava clefs to allow you to control whether they adjust the octave or not, but I think the setting is available for all clefs.

[Cadenza]

@mducharme said:

Have you tried using the octave shift property for the clef change? It was just an idea that came to mind.

It is normally meant for the ottava clefs to allow you to control whether they adjust the octave or not, but I think the setting is available for all clefs.

Hi and thanks, but it didn't help me since there's no alto clef with transposition upwards, only an octave below. I managed though to make the artificial harmonics to sound right with an octave line, but then I can't hide the line itself - if I do the notes jumps up an octave. So I guess the only solution to this is to write all harmonics as natural ones and trust the musicians to play those which are not natural as artificial.

[mducharme]

@Cadenza said:
Hi and thanks, but it didn't help me since there's no alto clef with transposition upwards, only an octave below.

I suspect you may not quite understand what I mean. I don't mean the octave clefs. Every manually added clef has an "octave shift" property in the properties panel when you select it.

The default is 0 (at pitch) but you can set octave shift anywhere between -3 and +3 octaves.

[Cadenza]

@mducharme said:

@Cadenza said:
Hi and thanks, but it didn't help me since there's no alto clef with transposition upwards, only an octave below.

I suspect you may not quite understand what I mean. I don't mean the octave clefs. Every manually added clef has an "octave shift" property in the properties panel when you select it.

The default is 0 (at pitch) but you can set octave shift anywhere between -3 and +3 octaves.

Aha, thanks! I'll try that.

[Mavros]

I have recently been copying a number of movie scores and none of the SY Strings Pro harmonics worked as written. All only sounded when raised at least an octave.

When I was correcting the EM for the new String Pro/Strings I integration, I noticed that in the VSL EMs for Dorico there is a -24 transposition, the top right entry in the map, for harmonics. Setting these to 0 (there are four harmonics lines I think) make all of them work correctly as written.

[andi]

Hello Mavros!

I have re-checked the harmonics settings in the Dorico expression maps for Synchron Strings Pro. They seem to be correct. Please note that we have only recorded fourth harmonics. The sound of these is two octaves higher than the base note. So if you have written lower harmonics, they will remain quiet.

Best regards,
Andi

[Mavros]

Thanks Andy for the clarification. Is there any documentation on what harmonics are exactly registered in SY Strings Pro?

Apparently there is an alternative notation method used in the score I was copying. It shows the pressed rather than the sounding note and in a legend asks for fourth harmonics only (so perfect for SY Strings Pro). On top of this it uses the "natural harmonics" circle also for artificial harmonics. So to reflect what the score is asking for, I have to use an alternative EM without the -24 transposition.

[andi]

Hi Mavros!

The harmonics part of the library manual is here:
https://www.vsl.co.at/instruments/synchron/strings-pro#harmonics

We don't have an extra documentation for the expression map.

Best regards,
Andi

[Mavros]

Thanks Andi, Maybe a few phrases about the notes recorded should be added. I don‘t think there is any mention that only fourth harmonics were recorded.

[Cadenza]

@mducharme said:

@Cadenza said:
Hi and thanks, but it didn't help me since there's no alto clef with transposition upwards, only an octave below.

I suspect you may not quite understand what I mean. I don't mean the octave clefs. Every manually added clef has an "octave shift" property in the properties panel when you select it.

The default is 0 (at pitch) but you can set octave shift anywhere between -3 and +3 octaves.

Excellent - it worked! Thanks!

[Cadenza]

@mducharme said:

@Cadenza said:
Hi and thanks, but it didn't help me since there's no alto clef with transposition upwards, only an octave below.

I suspect you may not quite understand what I mean. I don't mean the octave clefs. Every manually added clef has an "octave shift" property in the properties panel when you select it.

The default is 0 (at pitch) but you can set octave shift anywhere between -3 and +3 octaves.

Still excellent advice, but how to deal with artificial harmonics when the occurs without any clef change?

[mducharme]

@Cadenza said:
Still excellent advice, but how to deal with artificial harmonics when the occurs without any clef change?

The artificial harmonics are generally fine out of the box, so I don't have to do this with them.

Keep in mind there are two different ways of doing natural harmonics in Dorico and also two different ways of doing artificial harmonics. The older way, which was the only way in the first Dorico versions, was to use a "natural harmonic" playing technique to give the 'o' for natural harmonics (which is still there in the playing techniques panel). The older artificial harmonics way was to manually add a diamond notehead above the existing note and turn playback off for it so that you didn't hear it play perfect fourth double stops. These older ways of doing harmonics are still available but they have the disadvantage of not transposing properly.

Back in around Dorico 3, they added a new preferred way of creating harmonics by going into the properties panel at the bottom with a note selected, and this can be used to create both natural harmonics and artificial harmonics. This works differently in terms of transposition than the old methods. You're not supposed to use the old methods anymore of the natural harmonic 'o' playing technique or the perfect fourth as an actual diamond note, but sometimes people newer to the program get confused because they don't know what the old method is and what the new method is.

[Mavros]

Interesting insight. The new way does also show the « o » if you indicate natural or the diamond for artificial. Do I understand that when using the right panel to define harmonics, it sends a different note to the VST library than using the properties panel? That would be very confusing.

I am a guitarist no violin player but I guess as on a guitar you can play the same sounding harmonic on different strings using different pressing and harmonic « touching « positions. So multiple input possibilities from the score for the same harmonic sound pitch. On the other hand the VST library probably has only one midi note which will reproduce the desired pitch. The plugin does not intelligently recalculate the input to find the matching pitch.

So it is therefore very helpful what Andi mentioned i.e. only fourth harmonics (like on the 5th guitar fret) are recorded in SY Strings Pro and we are able to e.g. add a hidden note to get the correct playback or adapt the score. This merits a line in the library manual in my opinion.