Rieger with MIR?

[mducharme]

Hello,

I just picked up the Great Rieger while it is on sale, and I see that unlike the Synchron-ized line, there is no "MIR unprocessed" mixerpreset. Normally I choose this mixerpreset so that I can position the instrument in MIR. In my case I use mostly Synchron and want to put this on the Synchron stage.

What preset should I choose if I want to use this with MIR instead of with the built in IR's?

Are there any disadvantages of using it that way? I do see the Synchron Stage mixerpresets in the organ player, and I can see they include impulse responses. Is there anything special these are doing or can I just have MIR 3D do the same thing?

[nick.halliwell]

I don't have the GR so what follows is general rather than specific.

Synchron-ised line products were recorded, originally for the VI player, on VSL's old Silent Stage which was famously dry. The term "Synchron-ised" is literal in two ways: 1) it allows the VI samples to be played using the newer Synchron Player and 2) IRs allow them to be artificially placed onto VSL's newer Synchron Stage, which really is not dry at all (although Stage B is less reverberant, see Duality). The "MIR unprocessed" preset basically gets rid of 2). So you've basically got the sound of the VI Series product but in the Synchron Player.

Synchron series products are recorded on the Synchron Stage, so have its reverb baked into their sound. You can't really take it out. This means they're not ideal for use with MIR. However, that doesn't mean you can't, as long as you take a few things into account. Firstly, you're not going to get the same results as with a dry source. Essentially you're putting something recorded in one room into another. So just keep that in mind.

There are a couple of practical things you can do: 1) use close mics in the SP. These have less of the reverberant Synchron Stage sound. 2) In MIR, turn off all the Dry Signal Handling stuff.

Above all, as I say, bear this in mind and don't expect Synchron series products to work in MIR in the same way as VIPro, Synchron-ised or other dry sources. You can actually get some wonderful and really interesting sounds this way, I do it quite often.

This is more @Dietz's area and he'll be able to explain it in greater detail but I hope this helps a little.

All the best

Nick

[Dietz]

@mducharme said:

Hello,

I just picked up the Great Rieger while it is on sale, and I see that unlike the Synchron-ized line, there is no "MIR unprocessed" mixerpreset. Normally I choose this mixerpreset so that I can position the instrument in MIR. In my case I use mostly Synchron and want to put this on the Synchron stage.

What preset should I choose if I want to use this with MIR instead of with the built in IR's?

Are there any disadvantages of using it that way? I do see the Synchron Stage mixerpresets in the organ player, and I can see they include impulse responses. Is there anything special these are doing or can I just have MIR 3D do the same thing?

You will want to avoid any artificial reverb when using the Rieger Organ within MIR 3D, and - equally important! - you should switch off the recorded release samples as they contain the natural reverb from the recording session at Vienna Konzerthaus' Great Hall:

Start with the DEFAULT mixer preset and mute the AUX containing the algorithmic reverb (... you can delete it altogether when clicking the hardly visible "minus" sign in the left bottom corner ... see the red arrow in my screenshot). The release samples' volumes are controlled by their dedicated spin-boxes in the mixer (see the light-blue markings in the screenshot). Set them all to 0. Done! 😊

... and save it as a User Mixer Preset for future use.

HTH!

[mducharme]

@nick-halliwell said:
Synchron series products are recorded on the Synchron Stage, so have its reverb baked into their sound.

Yes I understood all of this already and very clearly know the exact difference between the Synchron-ized and Synchron libraries. I never use MIR with any of my Synchron libraries because I don't need to.

The Great Rieger is a weird exception though because it is called "Synchron" but it is the only Synchron library not recorded at Synchron stage, and is the only "Synchron" library where all the samples originally came from a Vienna Instruments library (the Konzerthaus). The Rieger comes with a built in convolution reverb that is designed to change the sound of the Konzerthaus hall to the Synchron Stage to make it match the other Synchron libraries. These impulse responses are similar to those included with the Synchron-ized libraries that are used for placing the dry libraries from the silent stage on the Synchron stage, except in this case, the organ was recorded in the Konzerthaus, so the main difference is that it is not completely dry like the Silent Stage is.

I was asking the question because I would prefer to turn off the built in convolution in the Synchron player in this case that is simulating the Synchron Stage to make it sound like the organ was recorded there, and replace the built in convolution with MIR convolution. MIR was probably designed to create the convolution responses anyway.

Your answer and explanation would have been 100% correct if it was any Synchron library except this one - this library is a bit of a special snowflake.

[mducharme]

@Dietz said:
HTH!

Hi Dietz,

Yes, this helps quite a bit. I understand everything but had one follow up question. Until I had gotten an answer on the MIR thing, I was initially just using the mixerpreset for "Synchron Stage Vienna - Scoring". I noticed when I choose that preset, it enables the Synchron Convolution Impulse Responses, but instead of decreasing the release samples volume to 0, it seems to drop them to 15:

I am wondering why those are 15 instead of 0. I would assume that disabling the Convolution Impulse Reverb option for those 5 slots and then loading this up in MIR Synchron in the default location for the organ with the same wet/dry settings should give an identical result to what that IR is doing? Or am I misunderstanding?

Just trying to figure out if the 15 is an error and it should be 0, or if keeping a slight amount of the release samples was decided to be beneficial for some reason, and if it is the latter, then perhaps I should adjust your instructions to use 15 as the release volume. (Unless of course the Convolution Impulse Reverb is doing something a bit differently from MIR)

[Dietz]

I seem to remember that I settled on the ‘15’ for this preset as I found that the remaining, barely audible natural release helped to connect the Synchron Stage IRs with the actual samples even better. ... however, I'm not in front of my DAW at the moment and can't double check immediately. But if you like the sound without release samples better, just go for it! 😊