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  • Person opinions about HZ Scores

    Perhaps the grinding mediocrity of Hans Zimmer music repels me in general, but also - this cello performance sounds very mechanical. It seems to instantly state "samples." The overall timbre is harsh and artificial and the MIDI obviously quantized. Sheet music converted to samples. With a few tweaks. And bad sheet music at that.

    In the future, Hans Zimmer will be known as the only composer of film music. This will of course be after the zombie apocalypse in which all musicians have had their brains evacuated and eaten. By the Zimmerites. The new zombies of music. But congratulations Jay ! You did a VSL Accepted/Stamped and Approved Performance of Zimmer the God, the Greatest Composer of All Film Music of All Time! Is there anything better in film music today?


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  • @William said:
    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!



    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!

    @Andreas8420 said:

    We'd be thrilled to hear mock-up renditions of this piece from you and others in the community, @William! 🙂 Everyone is welcome to post here in our forum!


  • Andreas,

    Unfortunately, it is a complete insult to any self-respecting musician to perform "music" of Hans Zimmer, the worst film composer of modern times, in fact, a "composer" so bad he does not even rate the name. He creates "musical noise." If you wanted to pay me to perform this hack's music, you would have to go to around 6 figures, to begin with. Then I might consider lowering my standards but would be disgusted with the job. Zimmer is a hack, and he is making vast amounts of money creating garbage scores, that destroy the films they score. He knows nothing of music or film scoring. The films he scores are almost unbearable to watch because of his garbage "music."

    The fact that previously, the most financially successful film composer was John Williams - a brilliant composer and melodist, a master of many styles, supremely knowledgeable of music, a great conductor - the fact that he was the most paid, the most wealthy and the most famous film composer of them all but is now replaced by Zimmer - a HACK who knows NOTHING of orchestration, harmony, counterpoint, music history, music style, complex harmony, modernistic styles, anything that composers nowadays rate as normal knowledge - it is sickening, alienating and a true indication of the low level that music, film composing, and culture in general has sunk to.

    Andreas - do you have any questions about what I think concerning this? Let me know.


  • Even if all of what you say above would be true, what I hear from your words is lots of frustration and pessimism.

    And overall, Hans is more known than you, he is more successful than you, and most likely he is also richer than you.

    Congrats and well done, Hans!

    P.S. I am not Andreas, but I would doubt that there are more questions. Enough said.


  • @Frankenstein

    Well put. Everyone should be allowed to express their thoughts here on this community forum - but not at the expense of other people's creative efforts and joy. The score does an amazing job of transporting the emotion and action of the movie - and @JBacal, again, came up with a fabulous & enjoyable mock-up. Thanks, Jay! 😊

    PS: Others suggested a well-deserved 1-2 months "vacation" for Wiliam, but I think we will leave it at that.


    VSL Team | Product Specialist & Media Editing
  • I had meant to apologize to Andreas for my snarky irritating tone. Sorry about that. Also, I do think Jay Bacal is very talented. And of course the VSL company is fantastic, amazingly innovative and to me the best of all orchestral sample libraries. However the subject of Hans Zimmer is extremely disturbing. I get too involved with these things and overdo the responses. Anyway, no need to suggest a vacation as I will avoid any further participation here.


  • @William said:

    I had meant to apologize to Andreas for my snarky irritating tone. Sorry about that. Also, I do think Jay Bacal is very talented. And of course the VSL company is fantastic, amazingly innovative and to me the best of all orchestral sample libraries. However the subject of Hans Zimmer is extremely disturbing. I get too involved with these things and overdo the responses. Anyway, no need to suggest a vacation as I will avoid any further participation here.

    I have to say one more thing after being IGNORED by VSL - your paycheck, Andreas, was probably provided by some of my demos. Also - your deliberate suggesting that I am another non-entity of the public writing in, who can do any stupid worthless MIDI performance he wants to, was noted by me - and disgusting. I was working with VSL and doing many demos for them probably when you started here, if not before. I am offended by you and this website, and completely withdrawing from it - but you need to understand you are not my "superior" chastising me. You are not even known to me beyond this Forum. What do you do? What is your expertise? Just go ahead and DELETE ALL OF MY DEMOS of VSL. Go ahead - no problem with me! See what VSL thinks about that. I am so gone from this Forum... good riddance! I am resigning from this Forum and delete my account immediately.


  • Sorry to Andreas and VSL for going nuts - I will definitely avoid this sort of thing...


  • I have to explain a little further - though Jay Bacal does a great job and I don't mean to insult anyone from VSL, which is a group of brilliant musicians and engineers I truly admire - whenever the topic of Hans Zimmer is brought up I start twitching, frothing, going into seizure. This is partly because he gets millions of dollars to do the WORST FILM MUSIC IN HISTORY. The music Zimmer has done is so bad that it cannot really be called music - it is a musical noise. It is profoundly disturbing how somebody who makes millions creating this crap is now the highest paid film composer. There used to be geniuses of music - like John Williams who is an erudite, supremely accomplished composer and conductor, Bernard Herrmann, who was one of the greatest composers of the 20th century in any medium, Erich Korngold who as a child was a prodigy who could kick Zimmer's miserable ass off the map - but none of this matters, because film music is now the province of moronic, tasteless producers who know nothing about actual musical values, and yet are given total respect and credence because why? THEY HAVE MONEY. That is why Zimmer is the god of film music now. He makes lots of money - as that person who wrote into this thread stated. Yeah right - Zimmer makes more money than I do. Producing garbage. I am glad to be poor. I am not a part of your world.


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    Guys, guys, guys, just relax! There's no need to aggressively discuss musical tastes and supposedly bad MIDI production and attack each other. I also find the music of Hans Zimmer and his team working in the background rather mediocre, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go off on a tangent against others who like his music. About the mock-up: it was probably not even initially made because of anyone's taste, but because of the big name.

    By the way, to call it an "insult" to any musician if he/she even dares to perform Zimmer's music, I find, and excuse my wording, pathetic.

    Let's live in peace and let everyone have their own taste in music!


  • Your post, attempting to be a font of wisdom about being kind and compassionate to everyone, is funny: you state it is "pathetic" what I wrote. Yeah, whatever. You are such a fine model of how to behave... you might want to follow what you preach.

    Anyway, I don't really care one way or the other about this trivia by people who instantly evaporate into the nothingness of the internet which they richly deserve - the way of social media online. Your important "opinions" are nothing in reality. They are gone almost instantly.

    The situation is, I was set off by the continuing worship of Zimmer, who is now apparently considered the greatest film composer of all time - by you people. Fine, you can go ahead and think that. Why should I complain? After all, as the previous person here pointed out, I don't make as much money as he does. This of course means I am inferior. OK. Right! I am inferior! Because I don't make much money. I understand now. Thank you! After all, who am I? Scum, as far as composers are concerned. I have no standing, no claim to fame. Whereas Zimmer is the greatest composer of film music, perhaps of all music in history, correct? Who ever lived. I have no right to challenge that. And as VSL realizes - he is the greatest of all film composers now. You on this Forum all now believe this and I congratulate you for your conformity. Thanks for letting me know. I am now bowing out of this - so go ahead with the worship of your idol. I am striving to avoid everything you, and your world, represent.


  • @William said:
    After all, who am I

    A frustrated old white man?

    @William said:
    Anyway, no need to suggest a vacation as I will avoid any further participation here.

    Sounds good


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    Sometimes I struggle against feelings of sadness and loss when contemplating the degeneration of Tinseltown. Other times I just accept it and think "they had it coming".

    When swindlers start taking over a once great enterprise such as the Hollywood film industry, it's a bit like watching someone die of cardiovascular disease, cancer, or Alzheimer's. Yet whereas for decades we've been lead to believe these killer diseases are sort of somewhat like unfortunate 'infections', nowadays medical research has begun revealing more and more uncomfortable truths about the actual causes of these dreadful pandemic diseases. And doctors, nutritionists and other health care providers very soon will be facing the difficult predicament of what to say about blame. How much longer will they be able to continue with their professional diplomacy and avoidance of laying blame on the great and powerful money-making institutions of today? Will they dare to take a stand against Big Pharma, Big Food, Big Agriculture, and above all, Government-backed advice on healthy nutrition? It's going to be very interesting to see when and how that will eventually pan out.

    These days, I'm somewhat sanguine about the fact that so many successful swindlers have so much public support. The so-called "engineering of consent" has been an enormously powerful factor in forming sociocultural attitudes towards successful money-making. But this "social engineering" didn't appear out the blue just because of propaganda experts (oops, sorry, they like their profession to be called "Public Relations") such as Sigmund Fraud's nephew, Edward Bernays back in the early 20th century. How about the Hans Christian Anderson (1837) story, "The Emperor's New Clothes"? In that story the two swindlers made the point up front that the Emperor's new clothes would be invisible to those who are incompetent or stupid - a classic narc tactic.

    In the case at hand here, we have a pushy and self-promoting pop-song producer who relies on orchestrated 'jingles' and 'hooks', but who has cunningly convinced Tinseltown producers and directors that he's an excellent film composer. And he's made shedloads of money doing that - so now he's untouchable, right?

    Though I do agree with you, William, I can only implore you that there are far better things on which to expend your energy. For my part, currently I'm avoiding trying to wake people up to the fact that their chronic consumption of ultra processed food is highly likely to shorten their lifespan and healthspan. I can't say it's the same as trying to get people to recognise that the Zimmbot is a swindler who is just dishing out the musical equivalent of ultra processed junk food. But it's kind of similar.

    Unless and until there's a tectonic shift in the current "engineering of consent" we're just p***ing against the wind.


  • @Frankenstein said:
    @William said:
    After all, who am I

    A frustrated old white man?



    @William said:
    Anyway, no need to suggest a vacation as I will avoid any further participation here.

    Sounds good

    William is certainly an old white man, frustrated by bad musical taste being glorified and he does tend to "lose" it on this forum, on occasion. But isn't Hans also old and white? As to whether he's frustrated due to his needing a small army of "musicians" to manage even those puerile malsymphonics he proffers, I do not know.

    I know I would be...

    However, what do you mean exactly by these old and white designations? Frankenstein you know was quite mature (for his time) and very white (if fictional), and you use that for your moniker. Inconsistency? Unless your name really is Frankenstein of course - in which case scrap that; but I doubt it.

    I am white and of middle age. I frequently get frustrated too. Have you got any advice for me, you young black/yellow woman (possibly?), for you cannot be old, white, and male, you despise that. But if you are a white man, how awful will you feel when you get older? Unless you're not frustrated in any way.

    How can you not be, listening to Hans Zimmer?..


  • So good to see you here again Errikos!

    Let's first deal with the case of encountering an insulting interloper in any thread.

    I have a small list of blocked accounts. The way I see it, why put oneself 'on offer' for the toxic few who excel in baiting, among other depraved, despicable tactics? The simple expedient of blocking instead of reacting or responding in any way whatsoever, completely deprives them of the 'oxygen' they crave. "Zero contact" is the most consistently recommended countermeasure against these toxic types, and I find it very effective.


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    By pure chance, last night I found and watched for the first time Guy Ritchie's 2009 film "Sherlock Holmes", with Robert Downey Jr as Holmes and Jude Law as Dr Watson. (Loved Downey's Brit accent - excellent job!)

    Well it soon became apparent that the score was not providing much at all by way of an affective/emotive narrative - at least, nothing grown up. Dammit, yet another poor choice of composer, I thought, then pretty much ignored the score throughout the film.

    I got to the end of the film and watched the main credits. Oh! Guess who did the score?! Yep, him. That explained a lot.

    Anyone seen the paintings of Paul Klee? LOL.

    I think perhaps the most generous I could be about HZ's film scores is to classify them as belonging to the "primitive school"; even though I've never been nor intend ever to become a fan of that "school" in any of the arts, period!


  • @Macker:

    Good to hear from you! I am less and less here as time ploughs on, but the desire to opine on this thread was compelling.

    I agree you should block the toxics from your personal medium, but a public forum should be open as much as possible to everybody's input. Free speech, free dissemination of ideas, and all that. It may get out of hand now and then when discussions get heated, but some animosity in the moment is a pittance of a price to pay for freedom of expression, so long as one keeps to the subject at hand. That's what I think anyway, I am not the Master of Ceremonies here, merely a member.

    Coincidentally, I also viewed this Sherlock Holmes sometime during the past couple of years for the first time. I must say the soundtrack made an impact, and I'll leave it at that except to say that it takes a versatile, learned composer to do comedy, certainly not a one trick lame pony... For this reason, I feel that even Klee would have been mortally offended by your comparison.


  • Errikos, I admire your valiant foray into combat against the miscreant who blatantly tried to torment William in his moment of anguish. And, fingers crossed, it appears to have vanquished the troll ... for now at least. My suggestion of blocking was because I couldn't abide the thought of the troll turning the tables on you; appealing to the moderator, presenting himself as the innocent victim of your "aggression" and persuading the moderator to delete your post. I've seen (and suffered from) that trick used successfully by a certain toxic type who used to frequent this forum - and this troll might well be him.

    Agreed on the extra difficulty of scoring comedy. Add that dimension to the potentially very complex and enigmatic nature of Doyle's Holmes, and yes, it's unlikely to be something an adroit director would or should entrust to any but a highly accomplished and empathetic film composer. But ... curiously ... the choice didn't go that way in the 2009 film mentioned. Curiouser and curiouser, the score in question was nominated for an Oscar! Call me suspicious and cynical but I do wonder how that nomination actually arose.

    I wonder if it might help other readers get a better idea of how some us regard the scoring efforts of HZ – in the interests of "freedom of expression" of course – if we portrayed our critical judgments in the form of a medium other than the English Language: perhaps, say, as a known painting. Let me give it a try.

    Here's a Klee painting to show how I see HZ's 2009 "Sherlock" period, and below that is a Kandinsky painting to show how I see HZ's subsequent productions following his astronomical yet unfathomable rise to fame in Tinseltown and beyond.:-


  • Thanks for the interesting replies, Maker and Errikos. The non-entity named "Frankenstein" is of no significance, as he has never posted any music here. Why? Simple - he is a non-musician who should stay away from a Forum of musicians.

    Unless - maybe he is a musician? Let's hear your music, Frankenstein. What do you do? I never heard anything from you.

    You can hear my stuff on the VSL demos. I recently deleted a lot of things on YouTube because there wasn't much point to them. However, my own music is all over the internet in various forms, music library, individual compositions, film scoring, etc. So I am not hiding and posting obnoxious things like a troll. You want to disparage me? Just listen to some of my stuff and criticize it. That would be a little more interesting than your previous posts.

    Anyway, I never meant to disparage Jay Bacal who does very good work. I was set off by Zimmer. It was better when he did Ravel instead of Zimmer. An AI program can do Zimmer perfectly. He is the human equivalent of AI.