Vienna Suite Pro - Any plugin that allows for direct change of gain?

[DaddyO]

I am looking into using a plugin to directly adjust gain staging per channel rather than adjusting the fader itself.

Hornet VU Meter 4 has been mentioned to me.

Hornet VU Meter 4

Does Vienna Suite Pro have any plugin that can do this? It looks to me like Loudness Pro is only for monitoring and does not allow direct changing of gain values.

[Frankenstein]

@DaddyO said:
Does Vienna Suite Pro have any plugin that can do this?

Nope

[mducharme]

The other one I had suggested was Kilohearts Gain, which is free.

I would love to see a simple integrated Gain plugin from VSL though in VE Pro or whatever.

[DaddyO]

@mducharme said:

The other one I had suggested was Kilohearts Gain, which is free.

I would love to see a simple integrated Gain plugin from VSL though in VE Pro or whatever.

It makes real sense for VE Pro to have one. As you pointed out in your original recommendation, doing this via plugin is preferable to having fader positions all over the map just to achieve "neutral." Once the plugin gain offsets are made, then all fader positions start from a fairly "neutral" setup and any relative changes from that are visually apparent.

Thanks for reminding me about Kilohearts Gain, when I consulted the applicable thread yesterday I must not have scrolled up far enough.

[Dietz]

@mducharme said:
I would love to see a simple integrated Gain plugin from VSL though in VE Pro or whatever.

What's wrong with the Matrix Mixer? 😊

Apart from that: Every VS Pro plug-in that shows an output level meter offers output-faders as part of them (... the thin white lines). Hold "Option/Alt" key to move all channels at once.

HTH!

[mducharme]

It's still a bit too complicated because you have to enter the numbers twice if I'm not mistaken? I'm just talking about a super simple gain plugin here where you enter one number.

[Dietz]

@mducharme said:

It's still a bit too complicated because you have to enter the numbers twice if I'm not mistaken? I'm just talking about a super simple gain plugin here where you enter one number.

It's a fader. Just grab it with the mouse.

[mducharme]

You've changed topics now from the matrix mixer's number boxes to the control on the right.

I know it's a fader, but what if I want to add +0.354 or +15.463? I don't want to have to click, I want to enter a number by typing it, once, and not have to use the mouse. I do a lot of entering of precise numbers. At the moment I have to bring third party plugins into VE Pro for this.

[DaddyO]

When you're 69 and have some problems with essential tremors, typing is easier and definitely more accurate than moving a fader with a mouse. Of course, I don't expect companies to make feature decisions based on my situation.

Mucho respect, Dietz.

[mducharme]

CPU load is a concern for me as well. My concern with the Matrix Mixer, aside from having to enter the numbers twice into two boxes, is that I use about 70-80 copies of the gain plugin in my projects and a regular gain plugin is a super simple thing so I don't have to worry so much about it, but when the plugin gets more complicated, I start to worry about CPU usage and efficiency given the extra code and processing it is doing that I'm not using.

Also, JohnG on vi-control was complaining about how he used the matrix mixer in VE Pro for this and had to switch to another gain plugin because the matrix mixer kept crashing VE Pro, and Simon Franglen (the "Avatar 2" composer) replied that he switched to Kilohearts Gain for the same reasons.

[Louis C]

I'm dealing with the same issue at the moment trying to balance Sample Modelling, SWAM and Synchron libraries )on the 99 Mir Pro preset).

I'm concerned about how much level Sample Modelling and SWAM instruments push into MIR compared to the VSL libraries and so have been using the Gain Utility in Logic Pro post VEPro BUT pre MIR .. yes I'm running MIR in Logic channels as VEPro is on remote machine and only running the VSL libraries.

@DIetz .. if I may, can I ask ... it seems that MIR reflections etc sound way better (more 3 dimensional) with a hotter signal.

Am I imagining this ?

ie. Will MIR give me the same frequency range spectrum of reflections with a signal dropped -35db from Unity using the Gain Utility as it will with the same signal closer to -10db from Unity (0db in Logic) without the Gain plugin reduction ?

[Dietz]

@Louis-C said:
it seems that MIR reflections etc sound way better (more 3 dimensional) with a hotter signal.

Am I imagining this ?

Hard to tell from the distance. 😊 But whatever it is that causes this difference (physics or psycho-acoustics), it's not MIR 3D itself. Its engine is completely linear.

[Dietz]

@mducharme said:
You've changed topics now from the matrix mixer's number boxes to the control on the right.

Sorry that I tried to offer some straight-forward help.

You can use the mouse as fader on both the number boxes and the output faders. Alternatively you can also type in numbers after double-clicking the respective GUI element in both cases.

... but then, it might just be a language thing and I did not understand what you were actually asking for. 🤷‍♂️

[mducharme]

@Dietz said:

@mducharme said:
You've changed topics now from the matrix mixer's number boxes to the control on the right.

Sorry that I tried to offer some straight-forward help.

You can use the mouse as fader on both the number boxes and the output faders. Alternatively you can also type in numbers after double-clicking the respective GUI element in both cases.

... but then, it might just be a language thing and I did not understand what you were actually asking for. 🤷‍♂️

Sorry - as I thought I clearly said, I just want to type in the number, without having to type it twice (once for right, and once for left). I thought I had clarified (but it seems I hadn't) that I don't want to use the mouse, except of course to click somewhere to type in the number.

Also I was replying to your main question "What's wrong with the matrix mixer?" and not your comment "Alternatively, you can use this control on the right".

I also don't want to be limited to +12dB, so how do I get rid of that limit with this?

And this will use the no more CPU than a third party gain plugin if I have, say, a hundred instances in use, and my CPU is already pushed to the limit?

[Dietz]

@mducharme said:
Sorry - as I thought I clearly said, I just want to type in the number, without having to type it twice (once for right, and once for left).

Sorry, maybe I didn't point out clearly enough that the Option/Alt key is your friend in case of the output faders then (even across surround and 3D channels).

But I rest my case, I understand now that your demands are too high for that humble plug-in (... that hardly uses any CPU at all, BTW).

[Louis C]

@Dietz said:

@Louis-C said:
it seems that MIR reflections etc sound way better (more 3 dimensional) with a hotter signal.

Am I imagining this ?

Hard to tell from the distance. 😊 But whatever it is that causes this difference (physics or psycho-acoustics), it's not MIR 3D itself. Its engine is completely linear.

lol ... many thanks for the clarification and I'm really relieved to hear it's linear ... and that it's just me losing objectivity ..... !

Balancing instrument levels with a Gain Utility before sending to MIR is allowing me to mix inside MIR in a very 'real world' way.

It's no longer a reverb ....... lol ... it's become my main work environment and PowerHouse is proving to be incredibly useful and is rock solid even when tracking MIDI instruments in Low Latency mode in Logic. Absolutely loving working in Mir.

[mducharme]

@Dietz said:

@mducharme said:
Sorry - as I thought I clearly said, I just want to type in the number, without having to type it twice (once for right, and once for left).

Sorry, maybe I didn't point out clearly enough that the Option/Alt key is your friend in case of the output faders then (even across surround and 3D channels).

But I rest my case, I understand now that your demands are too high for that humble plug-in (... that hardly uses any CPU at all, BTW).

Hi Dietz,

My apologizes if I came across a bit short. I do appreciate your help. Before I had replied last, I had already tried using the ALT key, but when using the alt key with the output faders when I double click to type in a number it only sets it in one and not both. but I realize now that I have to hold down the ALT key when pressing enter and not when clicking with the output faders, so that could work, except for the 12dB limit. That's good to know, but it's not going to be very convenient when I have to check what value I've set.

The only reason I need so many instances of the gain plugin in the first place is for the VSL Synchron instruments, as the software I use them in always forcibly resets CC7 to 100 which is wrong for many of the Synchron instruments, so to ensure they balance correctly, I have to add a gain plugin on every track that has Synchron and add a decibels adjustment to compensate for the difference between the patch's intended CC7 and the 100 value that my software forces.

So, every time I have a Synchron player, I have to use this table made by @Macker

By calculating the difference in decibels between the patch's default CC7 value and the decibels value of CC7=100 I'm able to then add a gain plugin on each track that adjusts the gain correctly. For instance if VSL makes an Oboe patch that has a default CC7 of 90, then that is -6.0db on the table, and 100 is -4.1 dB, so if the CC7 is increased to 100 then I need to add a gain plugin to subtract exactly 1.9dB from the signal to restore the VSL default levels.

Sometimes if I'm really tired when I'm working on stuff and have to load a patch I can end up screwing up the math, so its handy to be able to see the value quickly.

I have to do this every time I load a VSL instrument and don't really have to worry about it for non-VSL instruments. I wouldn't need as many gain plugins if perhaps there was a better way of doing this, so if you have any suggestions, I would appreciate it.

[mducharme]

I’m also not complaining about the plug-in but it is more than a simple gain. I’m sure the Matrix Mixer is really great when you need that, but trying to use it to replace a free gain plugin that is basically just a number box to type in a decibel amount feels like using a tank to squash an ant. It feels like overkill - using a solution that is extremely capable on such a simple task.