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  4. MIR Pro 3D and Dolby Atmos (using Nuendo 13) - Audio preparation

  • MIR Pro 3D and Dolby Atmos (using Nuendo 13) - Audio preparation

    M
    M

    Hi, I am trying to understand the workflow to experiment with Dolby Atmos and Mir Pro 3D. I had initially thought this could be done direct from the Midi project I had setup however after spending more time watching the demonstrations etc, the way I understand the process/workflow is that dry audio tracks in 24bit/48Khz or 24bit/96Khz need to be used as the source audio. Is this correct or can this be acheived directly from the original midi project? In my midi project, I am routing all instruments via Vienna Ensemble Pro with Mir Pro 3D.

    Is there a recommended way to get the dry audio tracks from the Midi project in Nuendo? I do own both the original Vienna Instruments and the Synchron / Synchronized instruments and in comparing the "dry" samples, the original Vienna Instruments seem more usable for this scenario but I must admit I haven't worked in the VSL environment for some time so I may have missed some important recommendations/information.

    Thanks in advance.

    Tom
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    last edited
    last edited

    Hi Tom,

    3D audio and stereo rely on the same basic workflow when working with MIDI in your DAW:

    1. MIDI data triggers the (virtual) instrument.
    2. The sounds created by the instrument is routed to a (virtual) device where it gets processed and (most likely) mixed with other sources.
    3. The mix of these sources is (maybe) processed as a whole and sent to the output D/A converters for listening and/or bounced to disk as final mix.

    MIR 3D will take place as part of step 2, where it will process the input of the (hoepfully) dry instruments. It will happily output any kind of format between mono and 9.1.6, and 44.1 to 96 khz - it's just a question of what the DAW is able to handle.

    To avoid any misunderstandings: MIR will _not_ create anything that Dolby calls "Objects" in its proprietary Atmos standards; instead, it will always output so-called discrete, channel-based formats (a.k.a. "Beds", in Dolby's lingo) which will happily work as food for any modern 3D format, like Atmos, Auro 3D, even Sony 360 and Ambisonics. Any necessary encoding to these formats happens as part of step 3 in my little list above. It is the task of the DAW, or a dedicated software tool, not of MIR itself.

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • M
    M

    Thanks Dietz for the quick reply. I think you have clarified my understanding and I suppose I am asking as I don't currently own the "full" libraries of many of the orchestral instruments which would include the additional surround mics and samples. In playing with Mir Pro 3D and following the tutorials online, it appears that I don't need these additional Mics (for this purpose) or the full libraries as they introduce a natural reverb/delay "effect" when they are all turned on and used (which sounds great without the Atmos complication just to be clear).

    If on the other hand, I want to incorporate the VSL libraries into an existing audio mix which is intended to be used for either ATMOS or Binaural, then I would need the dry VSL sampled audio in order that all audio (VSL and non-VSL) can be placed using Mir Pro 3D as the spatial panner for each source in a Nuendo project and then let Mir Pro 3D add the appropriate amount of reverbs for these dry sources depending upon their placement. If I were to use sources which already include a reverb or delay, this would not produce the best results.

    I realize that the "Objects" as Dolby calls them will not surface in Nuendo and in my own head that is why I am using Mir Pro 3D which allows the audio sources to be positioned in the Venues provided.

    Does that make sense or is there another suggested workflow that might better suit mixing VSL and non-VSL audio sources.

    Thanks,

    Tom
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    last edited
    last edited
    @mcelvogue said:
    If I were to use sources which already include a reverb or delay, this would not produce the best results

    Exactly.

    MIR is meant to be used for sources that neither include (noticeable) reverb nor pre-panned positioning information. This makes it use wie Synchron Instruments a bit counter-intuitive, as you're actually forced to drop most of the features that make up for their sound. ... Synchron-IZED Instruments, on the other hand, will work perfectly fine, as they are based on Vienna Instruments recordings. There's even a dedicated, fully dry Mixer Preset for this use case.

    @mcelvogue said:
    I realize that the "Objects" as Dolby calls them will not surface in Nuendo

    In fact, Nuendo _can_ provide "Objects", but it is important to understand that these are elements that are kept separate throughout the mix. Only during the final rendering process on the end user's listening device (or in the movie theater!) an Object is actually leveled and positioned according to its metadata.

    MIR, on the other hand, looks at an instrument on a stage / in a hall from a more holistic point-of-view. Consequently it always supplies the complete package "positioning + width + height + reflections + reverb" for all channels of the target output format.

    @mcelvogue said:
    Does that make sense or is there another suggested workflow that might better suit mixing VSL and non-VSL audio sources.

    It makes a lot of sense 😊 , and as a matter of fact MIR 3D gets used for this very task by professionals around the world. The most typical usecase is to combine Synchron Instruments (in a surround- or even 3D setting, which rely on their "full" libraries) with sources that weren't recorded at Synchron Stage Vienna. For the latter, there's a dedicated Venue Preset available in MIR's Preset Manager ("SSV Wide - Vienna Standards") which will hopefully help to get you up and running in no time.

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • M
    M
    @Dietz said:
    There's even a dedicated, fully dry Mixer Preset for this use case.

    I thought I had seen that somewhere but wasn't sure where. Now I know!!! Thank you for that as I do own a good number of the synchron-IZED collections also. I will give them a try to compare.

    Thank you once again Dietz, that is all great news and I am having great fun with my VSL learnings and explorations 😃. MIR is a super product and it's great to get to spend some more time with it.

    All the best,

    Tom