+1000
With Kontakt 7 now VST3 only, it's very important that VEP7 is updated to allow VST3 support. Please listen, VSL team! This needs to be top priority if you don't want to lose customers due to frustration and incompatibility issues.
-
If more piled on +1s help VSL to prioritize this, here's another :)
With Steinberg pushing hard to kill off VST2 and major platforms like Kontakt 7 following suit, VE Pro needs to add the ability to host VST3 plugins soon. It can't be the universal host that we continue building large orchestral templates with if it can only host older plugins.
Even for instrument plugins that still offer VST2 + VST3, I hesitate to continue building large VEP templates with the VST2 versions, because there will be so much manual effort required to rebuild those templates with the VST3 versions in the future.
(Also new developers haven't been able to obtain licenses from Steinberg to release VST2 plugins for quite a few years now, so VEP has been locked into the grandfathered developers club -- an unfair and unfortunate situation).
Can anyone from VSL at least confirm that this will be on the roadmap? (I very much understand not wanting to promise any specific timeline).
Thanks!
- Eric
-
VSL has already stated numerous times on this forum that its on the roadmap, but there is no timeline they can give at this time for when exactly we will see it. They have already told us a dozen times, they are working on it.
One thing you need to understand is that VST3 is a huge change from VST2 in terms of how its coded in any VST3 hosting app.. Its not a small change. Its a very very large change, especially for a sophisticated host software such as VePro. If it were an easy thing to add, I'm sure VSL would have released it already a long time ago.
In the meantime, I suggest you consider using a sub-hosting plugin for K7 as a work around. DDMF MetaPlugin, DDMF SuperPlugin, Kushview Element, PlogueBidule, perhaps even KompleteKontrol, are all possible plugins which come in VST2 form and can host VST3 plugins inside of themselves..which will essentially allow you to use K7 inside VePro7 right now.
Myself, I am still basically avoiding VST3 plugins. I'm still using K6 and have no "pressing" need to run out and get K7 any time soon. The VST3 spec also has some interesting design problems that can sometimes affect midi in problematic ways that does not exist with VST2, so me personally I always choose VST2 whenever possible and I will continue to do that as long as I can until it truly becomes a situation such that for example, there may be some sample library that only works on K7 which is only VST3... But we're just not there yet, there are really only a few isolated situations where VST3 is a hard requirement.
Just a suggestion.
-
Myself, I am still basically avoiding VST3 plugins. I'm still using K6 and have no "pressing" need to run out and get K7 any time soon. The VST3 spec also has some interesting design problems that can sometimes affect midi in problematic ways that does not exist with VST2, so me personally I always choose VST2 whenever possible and I will continue to do that as long as I can until it truly becomes a situation such that for example, there may be some sample library that only works on K7 which is only VST3... But we're just not there yet, there are really only a few isolated situations where VST3 is a hard requirement.It's not a hard requirement right now, but there will come a point in the not too distant future where it is, so before investing tens/hundreds more hours building new large templates, I'd rather future proof as much of that work as possible. I do save sample player specific preset files, of course, but even just the work of having to load a new plugin format and call up each one of those presets across dozens of libraries is going to be mind numbing.
So I'd prefer to start using VST3 plugins in VEP as soon as possible, even when that means having to deal with annoyances like choosing keyswitches instead of MIDI CCs for more reliable articulation management because of those VST3 design quirks.
-
I totally hear you. All I can say is they are working on it and it will come when it comes. But I suspect we still need to be patient. The other work-arounds for now are what you can do at this time, or choose as I do to avoid VST3 as much as possible.
To be honest, I am very much NOT looking forward to the day that I am forced to use VST3 instead of VST2. In my opinion you will be far better off using VST2 instruments whenever possible...for the forseeable future. Whenever possible, use VST2. If you just must use K7...then perhaps you are now forced to use VST3, but there is really no rush to be using the VST3 versions. They do not represent an improvement over VST2 in most cases, particularly for instruments. That is a very lengthy discussion as to why. But you are not missing anything, trust me. You're better off running the VST2 versions for years into the future from here. Its not like you will spend time setting up your templates and suddenly have to change them all to the VST3 version later....if you ever had to do that it would be years from now and probably not all your tracks, just a few as needed.
I would not worry about it. Use VST2 and love it! VST2 is truly better!
I'm confident VSL is working on it and at some point they will deliver VST3 hosting
-
So I'd prefer to start using VST3 plugins in VEP as soon as possible, even when that means having to deal with annoyances like choosing keyswitches instead of MIDI CCs for more reliable articulation management because of those VST3 design quirks.
Oh and on this point there is something to point out. Its good that you are aware of this! In the case of Kontakt, it doesn't matter if you are VST2 or VST3; as Kontakt itself has some of the same design flaws as VST3 in the midi implementation of its VST2 version also. In other words, some of the VST3 problems are also present in Kontakt VST2. Not all.. but some. So with Kontakt, avoid CC switches period.
-
Something else I want to point out. It is NI's decision to drop their VST2 version of Kontakt7. There are very few plugin developers who have made that decision so far. Steinberg has of course been heavily pushing this, but there was no forced reason for NI to drop the VST2 version of Kontakt7 other then their own decision to do so.
Additionally, I will just say that its highly probable it would have been much easier for them to continue supporting a VST2 version of K7 in addition to VST3....then it is for all hosts out there to upgrade to VST3 hosting. The latter is a much much more complicated, difficult and expensive endeavor to do. Perhaps Steinberg is behind pushing NI to do this, hoping it will force more hosts to get better at hosting VST3 (shrug)...we don't know....just speculation. But anyway my point is, make sure to let your feelings known to NI also! They could have just as easily, if not far more easily...released a VST2 version of K7, compared to expecting all hosts out there to drop what they are doing and implement full VST3 hosting...which is usually quite a complicated matter for some of them. In fact its still not too late for NI to reconsider and release a VST2 version perhaps. It doesn't hurt to ask them too is all I'm saying.
-
The VST3 version was introduced in 2008. So maybe for the 15th anniversary we can use VST3 plugins in Vienna Ensemble "Pro"
-
For most plugins, it will also not make a difference if you use one or the other.
The question isn't if there is any difference or if one is better than the other. For most users, there will soon be no choice. Since VST2 is deprecated, developers will more and more release VST3 plugins only.
-
There is a solution that I bench-tested today, that will enable VST3 FX & VI plugins to be hosted within VEPro7.
This solution will allow you to host multi-MIDI input & Multi-audio outputs, such as reqiuired when hosting multiple instruments in Kontackt 7 within VEPro7.
This solution also offers Delay Compensation and up to 16x oversampling.
You can save all parameters in the DAW session, as you would nornmally do.
All for $59.00 and great customer support too !!
Check it out with the demo (does not allow session saving in demo mode, but it works 100% for me in the full version)
https://ddmf.eu/metaplugin-chainer-vst-au-rtas-aax-wrapper/
Problem solved !!
-
Austin4098, have you managed to load Kontakt 7 (VST3) into DDMF's Metaplugin and run it all ok in VEP?
I inserted the latest demo DDMF Superplugin into the latest VEP (in macOS 12.6), but Kontakt 7 (VST3) was notable by its absence in Superplugin's browser. Kontakt 7 (VST3) works just fine in my Cubase 12.
As I understand DDMF's blurb on their site, Metaplugin and Superplugin are supposed to have the same format-wrapping capabilities - though I may be wrong about that.
I've used other DDMF products and find them to have some ingenuity here and there, but overall of somewhat hobbyist/amateur quality. A while back I deleted all of them from my system because of their unreliability. Not the sort of products I personally would want to recommend to professionals whose livelihood depends on pro quality equipment.
-
I've used other DDMF products and find them to have some ingenuity here and there, but overall of somewhat hobbyist/amateur quality.
That is absurd. DDMF make terrific plugins. MetaPlugin is awesome. Happy to see VSL working with them on discounting.
If you want something free, I suggest KushView Element which can also host VST3. Its free as donation ware right now.
https://kushview.net/element/download/
'I don't have Kontakt7 right now in order to test it in either product and at times Kushview has had some issues with transport sync...but sometimes it works great. But I still think DDMF MetaPlugin is probably your best bet for temporarily dealing with Kontakt7 until VSL can get VePro up to speed with VST3
-
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one here who wants to hear from members who have actually tried out one or more workarounds for using Kontakt 7 (VST3) in VEP.
We're not short of opinions here and that's all good. But shouting from the sidelines without actually knowing - or at the very least having real and relevant experience - of what you're talking about isn't going to help us move forward, is it? We need more than mere hubris if we're to seek out and find a convenient and useful workaround while waiting for VEP 8. We do not need need an internecine battle of mere opinions.
Without pointing at any member of this forum, I'm reminded of a recent televised court trial in Connecticut dealing with a notorious case of defamation, in which the jury awarded the plaintiffs almost a billion dollars in compensatory damages. During the trial the judge admonished the defendant thus:
Defendant: "I believe what I said was true."
Judge: "Yes, you believe everything you say is true but it isn't. Your beliefs do not make something true. That is ... [laughing sardonically] ... that is what we're doing here! Just because you claim to think something is true does not make it true. It does not protect you. It is not allowed.
Of course this forum is not a trial court, but nor is it a million miles apart from what a trial court generally does - both endeavour to seek out enough truth to get the job done reliably.
On Kushview Element (v0.46)
I've taken the time briefly to investigate one of the recommendations stated in this thread (by a member whose name is in the list of technical contributors to this particular product) - Kushview Element. The version numbering given on the website suggests this product is still not out of the beta-testing stage.
Element (VST2) loads into a VEP channel but the GUI window is far too short to show more than one or two items in the map, and I could not find any way of re-sizing the window. Element (AU) also loads but in this case the GUI window is properly sized and can easlly be re-sized. However, after having the stand-alone Element app scan for plugins, then inserting the Element (AU) plugin into VEP and loading Kontakt 7 (VST3) into Element's map, selecting any NI factory preset for one of the NI factory library instruments resulted in my computer hanging and being unresponsive. Each time, after several minutes I had to Force Quit VEP.
Moreover, the Kushview website clearly states - quite honestly I believe - various let-out clauses indicating the experimental nature of the product. Also, Kushview closed their webstore in August, stating that "We simply do not have the resources to offer timely support and maintenance."
I'm all for experimental tech designs, but only in suitable circumstances. In this forum I'm pretty sure we have not only professional musicians/composers and music/composition hobbyists but also tech hobbyists. I'm willing to bet that the musician pros and hobbyists here are not nearly as willing as tech hobbyists are to faff around and struggle with experimental tech products. Surely, recommending any experimental product here should be at least accompanied by some indication of what kind of circumstances it's best suited for.
I do not recommend Kushview Element for the purpose of operating Kontakt 7 (VST3) in VEP. Tech hobbyists don't need any opinion from me and no doubt will follow their own whims and take their own chances.
