Mastering orchestra with suite pro

[Rubens Tubenchlak]

Dietz and experts, could you kindly share a few tips about what to insert first and last in the master chain for mastering purposes? Multiband pro or limiter last? Do I need a limiter when already using Multiband pro? Eq first right? And then? When or where to use imager pro? Anything else?
I am sure I could have better results with vienna suite than with ozone. The problem is the lack of knowledge. It would be great, and I have heard the same wishes from many, if VSL could provide tutorials about those tasks...

[Dietz]

Rubens, thanks for your faith in my knowledge, but there are literally hundreds of tutorials already covering these questions. I don't see the necessity to flood that area with further material. 8-) If you really want to hear my most important advice, here it is: Avoid those tutorials that promise "easy shortcuts". Audio engineering in general, and mixing music in particular, is a craft that needs some training and routine, too, just like playing an instrument. There are hardly any hard rules, just meaningful starting points and maybe some "best practice" solutions. Make sure you grasp the basics and don't try to start midway. Most problems arise from insufficient information, not from insufficient tools.

The great thing about Vienna Suite / Pro is that there are no "magic" buttons that pretend to do things all by themselves, just plain, first-class audio engineering and programming. What you'll learn from a good tutorial can be implemented easily with its components. 

... in answer to your specific question about Vienna Suite Pro's Multiband Dynamics: This is perhaps the most unusual part of the VSL suite, and as such requires some care. It's not a brickwall limiter, so it's a good idea to use one as last instance of your master chain (as always) to catch the occasional super-fast transient.

The question "where to put EQ" depends totally on the context. My rule-of-thumb: Corrective EQs and filters before a full-range compressor (like that it has less content to take care for) and before any kind of stereo image processing. EQs for "colour" and broad strokes the full-range compressor (exciters likewise). Multiband and brick-wall limiting will provide the final steps for density, spectral control and technical cleanliness.

A typical mix bus could look like this: Filter > surgical EQ > (Imaging) > (Saturation*)) > full-range Compressor > "beautify" EQ > (Exciter**)) > (Multiband) > Brickwall Limiter.

*) Saturation is a mighty and dangerous ingredient that can make much sense (or destroy you mix ;-) ...) at a later stage of the chain, too. 

**) Personally, I rarely (if ever) use an exciter in a mix bus. I prefer it to emphasise selected individual signals.

... but as I wrote: That's a very rough generalization, not a rule.

HTH,

[Beat Kaufmann]

@Rubens Tubenchlak said:

Dietz and experts, could you kindly share a few tips about what to insert first and last in the master chain for mastering purposes? Multiband pro or limiter last? Do I need a limiter when already using Multiband pro? Eq first right? And then? When or where to use imager pro? Anything else?
I am sure I could have better results with vienna suite than with ozone. The problem is the lack of knowledge. It would be great, and I have heard the same wishes from many, if VSL could provide tutorials about those tasks...

Hello Rubens
In addition to Dietz's comments, I have a few other thoughts which might be helpful for you.
First, maybe about the term "mastering". In the past, music was mastered so that the technical data of the music would remain compatible with the record - not too much bass, not too much treble, rather mono in the bass range and so on. So it was really about keeping the needle in the "groove" of the record. With the medium of the audio CD, the record restrictions were gone. A new trend emerged. Mastering meant making the music as loud as possible. To produce music that is as loud as possible, in simple terms, all frequency ranges must be optimized and compressed so that ultimately all levels can be turned up. And yes, "Automatic Mastering" with Ozone is actually designed to do that more or less. The new modules, such as the Stabilizer, look besides basic EQ settings that at any time the frequencies are "kept stable"....
Of course, in classical music it is questionable whether it makes sense to keep the frequencies stable at all costs in a rather quiet part where only the strings (e.g. without double basses) are used. The treble and bass would then be turned up and the volume would be increased so that the "pianissimo" is over.
So what does mastering mean for more classical tuned music?

Simply put, it's about getting the maximum quality out of the last step - mastering - in terms of frequencies, levels, stereo range, bass range, midrange and treble range, basic sound, possibly reverb, etc.
Unfortunately, ears get used to wrong sounds very quickly. Already after a few minutes one can follow completely wrong sound ideals. It therefore makes a lot of sense to put on good recordings as sound references.
When mastering, you can compare your own productions with these references.
The first thing to do is to analyze what is different in your own product compared to the reference.
Secondly, you should make decisions about what to change or what to leave as it is.
Thirdly, one works through the list. Here, of course, knowledge, experience and skills are required - namely, with which effect tools you can achieve what and how.

So therefore is no correct order, because not necessarily always a limiter, compressor, an EQ or any other effect must be in the effect chain.
If you want, you can send me a piece and I'll give you an analysis result, along with what all you could do as mastering steps.

All the best

Beat

[Rubens Tubenchlak]

Dear Beat, that's exactly what I was looking for. Considering the available technology, a discussion about a few possible musical situations and the "adequate" treatment, if any, is needed. VSL offers many tools, but knowledge about the usage isn't always part of the education of composers. Nowadays we must learn all those areas in order to deliver the best material and it is nice to read that I can count on you. Thank you for your understanding.
I will send you something tomorrow morning. Email?

Thank you,

Rubens

[Beat Kaufmann]

@Rubens Tubenchlak said:

Dear Beat, that's exactly what I was looking for. Considering the available technology, a discussion about a few possible musical situations and the "adequate" treatment, if any, is needed. VSL offers many tools, but knowledge about the usage isn't always part of the education of composers. Nowadays we must learn all those areas in order to deliver the best material and it is nice to read that I can count on you. Thank you for your understanding.
I will send you something tomorrow morning. Email?
Thank you,
Rubens

Dear Rubens
why don't you send the example to
info@musik-produktion-createc.ch
To be able to make music successfully with samples, one would actually have to have great experience in many areas. Especially if you have the ambition as a composer to produce pieces with samples as if they had been played by a real orchestra. VSL offers a lot - first the samples themselves, then many presets with all the instruments and effects. But you're right, if after successful mixing (which is an art in itself) you want to master all the results yourself in the end....
There is actually behind everything a sound engineer training - and even with specialty "mastering music style classical & film"... (https://www.berufsberatung.ch/dyn/show/1900?id=5475 ... a Swiss website)
But you should also be an acoustician, midi specialist, computer specialist, instrument expert, music expert,... music connoisseur. Last but not least you should be a bit of a friend of technology - already at this point musicians and artists sometimes have a first problem.

Of course, it is beyond the scope of VSL to offer training in all these areas. As you will see, the thing is not done with a few nice videos. Until you know all the audio effects and what they are capable of, where their weaknesses are and the mistakes you can make with them. This is just a sample of the audio editing area. I'm glad VSL is focusing on one main business and doing a great job there.

Now I look forward to your example
All the best
Beat