Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  3. Vienna Ensemble Pro 7
  4. VEPRO and Apple Silicon M1
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    @Paul said:

    Hi guys, 

    We'd love to get to M1 upport right away and it is high on our list, but the transition to iLok is our top priority right now. 

    All our developers are working on Mac and have done so for years. It doesn't matter to us which OS our users prefer. 

    Best, 
    Paul

    I'm sure it doesn't help that PACE is taking their sweet time to release m1 native build and all the various support files developers need to build their own m1 native versions.  Seems like every single developer that relies on iLok has been at a standstill for the past year as far as I can tell, just waiting on PACE.
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    Just another user using Silicon and dreaming of getting VEPRO natively soon. 
    Thanks VSL Team for working hard on this once you are done with the iLok transition :)
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    @Dan Wool said:

    Thanks for the update! Is a native VE Pro MAS plugin version in the works as well? As you may know the MAS version doesn't work in Rosetta2. My templates rely on the functionality in the MAS plugin. Thx.

    In response to myself in case it's useful for anyone: Vienna support confirmed via email that a native MAS version of VE Pro is in development along with the other plugin formats. 
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    Any updates on this VSL?  Are we at least getting closer?  I can't put into words how badly I need Apple Silicon native VEP and MAS-plugin for my workflow.  Sending all the well wishes and good vibes to the entire dev team!

    Evan
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    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi, 

    Our transition to iLok is still our #1 priority, but native Silicon support is high on the to-do list after this. Thanks for your patience!

    Best,
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
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    @Paul said:

    Hi, 

    Our transition to iLok is still our #1 priority, but native Silicon support is high on the to-do list after this. Thanks for your patience!

    Best,
    Paul

    As a way of managing expectations: Would we be correct in assuming this transition will take place after iLok can run natively on M1? A lot of developers seem to be in this position. 

    Thank you
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    Just adding my voice to the chorus of how urgently native Silicon support is needed.

    I am running on an M1 Max computer now and over the weekend at a live performance, VI Pro instances caused MainStage to crash. So I went completely silent onstage while the actors had to improvise around it (I work in theater). Oof. 

    So now I'm scrambling to find a new (old) computer, or start migrating away from VSL instruments so I can have a stable environment during live shows. 
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    @J.H. said:

    ...So now I'm scrambling to find a new (old) computer, or start migrating away from VSL instruments so I can have a stable environment during live shows.
    A wise move. If VSL is waiting for PACE to update iLok to UB, I can't see how an AS compatible VE Pro will be out anytime soon (Fall m'be? I'd love to be wrong). PACE, understandably, is going to be extremely thorough. I've started creating all new templates without VEP-for-MAS, with the very cumbersome AU version, because I need to move on with my life. ...no doubt as soon as I'm finished Vienna will release the AS MAS version 😊 
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    Hi Everyone

    So not been doing much with VSL for many years now - due to other changes in my life, but getting back into music again and recently bought an M1 Max with 32GB and boy is it great.

    Finally found a way of getting it working with VSL Suite (which I still love but seems to be not on the development path anymore).  The secret is to run Logic X itself in Rosetta mode - this works for all the VSL plugins quite happily (as well as Maschine Mk3 that I also use).

    So for those struggling on M1 native compatibility try that.

    As an aside, does anyone have any recommendations for alternatives to VSL Suite.  And also what's the move to PACE all about - are we getting rid of the the Vienna Key?

     

    Kind regards

    Tim
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    Hey Tim,

    To answer your second question about the iLok transition VSL are making. Yes they are moving away from Steinbergs eLicenser (aka Vienna Key). These keys will still continue to function so long as Steinberg keep up their servers, and after that point they should continue to work so long as you can continue to run the eLicenser manager (or at least that is my understanding). The Vienna Key is actually just a rebranded eLicenser from Steinberg and with their transition to a new online licensing system and the deprecation of the eLicenser system VSL needed to make a choice about how to protect their IP and they decided to switch to iLok about a year ago now (at least that is when the public announcement came). Of course with PACE hard at work rewriting (from the ground up I imagine) their iLok system and ensuring it is secure it has taken them quite some time to do that. PACE recently told the folks over at ProTools Experts that they finally have a version for developers to start working with but it isn‘t quite ready yet and so we are still waiting (as are quite a few other vendors AVID comes to mind) for PACE to officially release their Apple Silicone native application so they can start their final re-write of their code that relies on PACE. 
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    This thread was started 15 months ago. Is there any estimate yet on when VI / VE Pro will be able to run natively on Apple Silicon?

    Native Instruments and others have already made the transition, so right now VSL is the only thing in my setup that's still Intel-only. 
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    +1.  Really hope we getting closer to this as it is so crucial to my and many others' workflows.

    I know ilok is the thing that's been holding everyone up to an extent....

    Though, I'm seeing some chatter that ilok FINALLY has this stuff together and a bunch of ilok dependant developers now finally have public beta builds which I'm HOPING means VSL is nearing their big ilok switch.

    Continuing to keep my fingers crossed.

    Evan
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    Time to switch back to using Plogue Bidule? 
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    +1. I am waiting for this to transition to M1, especially urgent because my DAW is DP11 and there is a MIDI timing bug with DP11 on older Intel machines, so until I switch I'm using annoying workarounds :(

    Working under Rosetta 2 sounds too dicey, though if any of you have had good experiences, please post.

    No ETA yet??
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    I also use DP11 and am a beta tester and can report issues directly to the MOTU devs. What are the steps/circumstances that cause the midi timing bug w DP11/VEP you’ve found on intel???? This needs to be fixed asap regardless of AS transition.
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    @evang42 said:

    I also use DP11 and am a beta tester and can report issues directly to the MOTU devs. What are the steps/circumstances that cause the midi timing bug w DP11/VEP you’ve found on intel???? This needs to be fixed asap regardless of AS transition.

    With higher buffer settings (e.g. 1048), if you are routing a MIDI track to a VI (any VI, even a MoTU VI), MIDI records about 60 ms late. Also "Fine-tune Audio I/O Timing" does not work on these machines. The only workaround is nudging MIDI back into place after recording. I've been working extensively with Matt Batson in tech support, and the engineering team has been made aware of the bug. They have reproduced it on 2 different Intel machines, and confirmed that it does not happen on their AMD PC or their M1 Mac Mini. I don't know that it is a priority for them though.

    There is an extensive thread about this on MoTUNation, "MIDI recording late", where I document what's going on in detail (though you may have to wade through some off-topic or uninformed posts to see it). If you have access to the engineering team and can help nudge them toward supporting the older Intel machines, that would be great!
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    @dmansfield said:

    +1. I am waiting for this to transition to M1, especially urgent because my DAW is DP11 and there is a MIDI timing bug with DP11 on older Intel machines, so until I switch I'm using annoying workarounds 😞

    Working under Rosetta 2 sounds too dicey, though if any of you have had good experiences, please post.

    No ETA yet??

     I think it's been stated elsewhere that M1 support would come sometime this year. 

    Have you tried the AU version of VEP with DP? As you may know there is no Rosetta version of the VEP MAS plugin, but the Rosetta 2 version of the AU seems fine here. However, I've never tried to record MIDI at buffers hight than 512. It's hard to imagine attempting a performance with 1048ms latency - I don't think many users do, so fixing it may not be a priority for MOTU

    I've checked out the MOTUnation thread, to be clear here, you've found this issue to be VEP MAS on Intel specific, correct? 
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    WOW.  mind absolutely BLOWN.  Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention.  This has long plagued me too!!  But I had no idea until 20mins ago that this was an actual bug effecting only DP users.  I incorrectly thought this was just the very nature of latency and buffer settings etc and all DAWs experienced this.  Just confirmed with Logic and Cubase using friends that those DAWs will compensate for higher buffers when live recording MIDI.  DP needs to fix this RIGHT AWAY.  I'm going to ping the hell out of this to the dev team.  Thanks again for bringing to my attention!
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    @evang42 said:

    WOW.  mind absolutely BLOWN.  Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention.  This has long plagued me too!!  But I had no idea until 20mins ago that this was an actual bug effecting only DP users.  I incorrectly thought this was just the very nature of latency and buffer settings etc and all DAWs experienced this.  Just confirmed with Logic and Cubase using friends that those DAWs will compensate for higher buffers when live recording MIDI.  DP needs to fix this RIGHT AWAY.  I'm going to ping the hell out of this to the dev team.  Thanks again for bringing to my attention!

    Wait, what? I've used DP exclusively for composing with MIDI for years. Are you saying other DAWs have found a way to eliminate buffer latency when recording MIDI (IOW the interval between the time a key/pad is pressed and the VI sounds)? If so, I missed a memo, because it was not always so. Back in the oughts, when I used Logic, latency was definitely a thing.  
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    @evang42 said:

    WOW.  mind absolutely BLOWN.  Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention.  This has long plagued me too!!  But I had no idea until 20mins ago that this was an actual bug effecting only DP users.  I incorrectly thought this was just the very nature of latency and buffer settings etc and all DAWs experienced this.  Just confirmed with Logic and Cubase using friends that those DAWs will compensate for higher buffers when live recording MIDI.  DP needs to fix this RIGHT AWAY.  I'm going to ping the hell out of this to the dev team.  Thanks again for bringing to my attention!

    Wait, what? I've used DP exclusively for composing with MIDI for years. Are you saying other DAWs have found a way to eliminate buffer latency when recording MIDI (IOW the interval between the time a key/pad is pressed and the VI sounds)? If so, I missed a memo, because it was not always so. Back in the oughts, when I used Logic, latency was definitely a thing.  

    No no, theres a very clear distinction that needs to be made here.  I'm not saying other daws found a way to eliminate the buffer latency of - the interval between the time a key/pad is pressed to the time you hear the sound - that would basically be impossible.  What Im saying is other DAWs have a way to place the actual MIDI notes that you play in real time down in the midi track at the EXACT time you physically touch the keyboard, regardless of buffer.  Pretend your speakers are muted for a sec, this whole thing has nothing to do with actual sound.  Set up a metronome on your iphone or something.  Now, If you record arm a track in Logic or Cubase, play a midi passage to the click at a buffer of 64, the resulting recorded midi will be in time to the same extent that if you then change your buffer to 2048, record arm the track and play to the same click.  That is currently NOT the case w DP.  DP's buffer settings are having a negative delay/impact on where the actual midi notes get put while recording and it gets worse the higher the buffer goes.