@Macker said:

Sam, thanks so much! I'm obliged to you for your meticulous comparisons, especially in the case of WW - by far the most useful comparison I've seen to date.

Right now I'm seeking advice while mulling whether to buy the VI Solo Strings bundle in the sale, or else bide my time until the next Synchron sale and forgo the VI version forever.

Though it would be more expensive for me to go the VI route now and crossgrade later, uppermost in my mind is the still matchless quality of VI Solo Strings.

But there's also the question of 'driveability' of VI versus Synchron libraries. It's a leap in the dark for me because I've no experience of driving VI Pro in the highly intricate and often high-speed 'slalom'-type circumstances of programming solo instruments. I'm therefore extremely curious to know - from anyone in a position to help on this - whether the VI Pro or the Synchron Player has any relative advantages or disadvantages in programming demanding solo parts - most especially in the case of solo string parts.

Macker,

You're welcome!  I'm glad my observations are useful 😊

My personal experience with the VI Solo Strings VS SYN-zed Solo Strings:

The SYN-zed Solo Strings are - next to the SYN-zed Dimension Libraries and perhaps the SYN-zed Appassionata and Chamber Sordino - the only SYN-zed libraries I would actually consider a real upgrade/expansion compared to a stripped down layering tool, and therefore worth the price.  Here's why:

• You get Violin II and Cello II, which is MUCH more value than the VI bundle (not factoring in sale prices, of course).  You can do a traditional string quartet without having to pitch-duplicate Violin I or discount-wrangle to get Violin II.  
• The library turns the perf_rep articulations into "multi-shorts", which exponentially increases the amount of short articulations you have available (which is incredibly useful in solo strings, as you can imagine!)  What this feature does is detect whether you're in the middle of a phrase or at the beginning of one, and adjust the round-robins accordingly.  In a semi-recent project, I used this feature extensively and was able to create phrases that combined arpeggios with repeated notes without having to switch between perf_rep and staccato/spiccato patches.  Out of curiousity, I tried to replicate this just using the VI version and it wasn't possible.
• The scaling release sample feature lets you inject pre-recorded dynamic patches in the middle of phrases without that abrupt cut-off from the dynamic sample.  Such a small detail, but it allows for so much!
• With a slight exception (elaborated below), the library includes EVERY SINGLE ARTICULATION from the VI versions.  Huge thumbs up!
• As with all SYN-zed libraries, you can turn off the impulse response and use it like the dry VI version.  In fact, every time I've used them I've done this!

There are a few tiny quibbles: Violin II and Cello II's fast_rep patches don't include cut release versions, and the fast legato patches for at least Violin I sound somewhat phase-y to me (although that might be my ears playing tricks on me).  But, in comparison to the above points, these are absolutely not deal-breakers for me.

Re: drive-ability

I use REAPER and an articulation management script for it that works very, very easily and smoothly, so from my POV the libraries have the exact same workflow: set up some keyswitches, program the script accordingly, and go to town with what is essentially REAPER's version of expression mapping. 

Therefore, I have no idea whether or not one is more easily programmed than another outside of my particular set-up.  If I had to guess, I would say they're both the same, as they both use keyswitches and controllers to switch articulations, and both are easily configured and set-up to your particular taste. 

Synchron Player's "Dimension" structure makes it easier to create "playing modes" since it remembers where you are in a particular category of selection, but I'm sure you already know this.  It's worth mentioning, though, since strings (and their huge amount of playing styles) are probably the kinds of libraries that make the most use of this kind of functionality.

Synchron Player is a bit buggier and prone to hiccups than VIPro for me (unless it's loaded up in Vienna Ensemble, in which case they both behave equally nicely.)  I'd bet money this is particular to my computer, however (it's 7 years old).

In short: other than the few quibbles I mentioned, I can't see how SYN-zed Solo Strings is in any way a downgrade from VI Solo Strings, and I can see many ways in which it's an upgrade.

Hope that helps!

the Synch'd WW have things the VI doesn't at all and likely is missing some things. It's two different products. 

the way I approach this is with MIR Pro 24, so I run out of slots there but having many Synchron Player libraries mixes quite well with Synchron in MIR, with also the option of MIRacle or one of the enhancements of Hybrid Reverb. In fact the Synchron products have an enveloping quality in the surround or surround-to-stereo that MIR doesn't, so for me best ot two worlds.

@circlingkailas said:

Hi everyone - quick question and I appreciate your opinions.  I'm about 50% of the way to complete my set of VI Symphonic Cube - just need to add woodwinds and brass.  This has been over a number of years, plus adding individual VI instruments (clarinets, sax) as I needed them.  Now comes along Synchron and Big Bang.  With a limited budget (I also have a complete set of EastWest libraries, as well as The Orchestra Complete but am not planning to drop 5K+) - should I continue adding to the VI Cube series, or make the switch over to Synchron or Big Bang?  I know there are considerable differences in sample and recording techniques used.

I am leaning to just completing the VI Cube, and adding some Big Bang libraries.

Thanks!

Hi,

I would not buy VI in general anymore. The reasons are obvious and do not have to be explained. Synchron is the future ... VI is ... „still there“ 😊 ... 

The only thing which is really missing ... a SY Player Pro ...

(... with hopefully a better Time Stretch-Performance. Literally NO ONE is able to manage bigger Projekts with this Time Stretch CPU-Killer. First I thought it was me or my computer. But the Library Testers on YouTube (With the latest PCs and Macs) are unhappy too.)

@Seventh Sam said:

Alternatively, adding Timbre Adjust to VIPro would be amazing.  Wishful thinking, but just throwing it out there.

Hello Sam,

actually "timbre control" is available in VI pro when using Articulate Presets:

There is even "3D control", which allows you to control up to 3 sound parameters simultaneously via continuous controllers (e.g. attack, vibrato and section size). And there are no omissions/restrictions: all articulations included in the full VI libraries (e.g. various short and long note variations, legato variations, dynamics, phrases, APP Sequencer matrices, ...) are instantly accessible. In addition to the obvious advantage that you can conveniently use any MIRx venue instead of merely the Synchron Stage, they use other unique features that only VI pro offers, like the convenient auto-divisi for Dimension libraries. 

All orchestral VI libraries are supported, so if you are interested simply download the demo and check it out.

Sam, many thanks again - really good of you to provide so many considerations. It's all increased the agony for me, lol, but I welcome that. For me it's well worth agonising over this Solo Strings decision, and I couldn't have done it as thoroughly without your detailed contribution.

And guess what? I'm minded to go for the VI Solo Strings bundle.

This bundle (the only VI candidate I've been considering) includes Sordino, Violin II and Cello II. In short, the way I'm looking at it now, relative to Syz Solo Strings: -

  •   I'd gain Sordino; cut release in Fast-Rep for Violin II and Cello II; and clean Fast-Legato patches for Violin I;

  •   I'd lose multi-shorts; the scaling release sample feature; Dimension tree features; and Timbre Adjust.

When I first considered relative prices I totally forgot that Syz Solo Strings doesn't have Sordino! So now, guessing a list price for Syz Solo Strings II (all the Sordino articulations ported across - assuming VSL chooses to do it eventually), the VI route no longer seems the more expensive option in my case. Also, crossgrading to Syz later probably still wouldn't disfigure the monetary sense of going VI now.

Above all, the clincher for me was that I didn't want to risk going Syz and be left without Sordino for ages or maybe forever, and facing that dreadful "no sensible way back" feeling in view of VSL's one-way discount policy for crossgrading. (I've tried and tried, but haven't yet found a truly satisfactory way of simulating Sordino.)

Circlingkailas, so sorry to have hijacked a big chunk of your thread on things you've not asked about. Alas, good advice can at times be very scarce in this forum, and on this particular topic of VI versus Synchron / Synchronized there's been a veritable famine! And so one just has to dive in opportunistically when diamonds like Seventh Sam pop in and post treasure! Hope his comments are also helping you with your concerns about woodwind and brass.

I'd add this. What's emerging here is that it's really a matter of considering 'alternative' libraries on a case-by-case basis now, despite that seemingly golden opportunity of reaching for the whole Cube. In short, it was always complicated; today it's very complicated. No blame; I believe it's just the nature of what we're all asking technology to do for music-making.

@Macker said:

When I first considered relative prices I totally forgot that Syz Solo Strings doesn't have Sordino! So, guessing a list price for Syz Solo Strings II (all the Sordino articulations ported across - assuming VSL chooses to do it eventually), the VI route no longer seems the more expensive option in my case.

Above all, the clincher for me was that I didn't want to risk going Syz and be left without Sordino for ages or maybe forever, and facing that dreadful "no sensible way back" feeling in view of VSL's one-way crossgrade discount policy. (I've tried and tried, but haven't yet found a truly satisfactory way of simulating Sordino.)

And I totally forgot the VI Solo Strings Bundle includes Violin II and Cello II.  Given the current sale , I think everything you're saying makes perfect sense!  Given the pattern of VSL's releases, it's pretty likely that SYN-zed Solo Strings Sordino will come along at some point.  Take that with a grain of salt, though; I don't work for VSL nor do I have any insider information.  I'm just a groundling 😊  

@symphonic riot said:

Hello Sam,

actually "timbre control" is available in VI pro when using Articulate Presets:

Unfortunately, it's not.  I'm specifically talking about "Timbre Adjust", which is a feature VSL recently introduced to the Synchron Player (coinciding with the release of Synchron Brass).  It's a proprietary intelligent filter control that behaves like a multiband expression fader, scaling different frequency ranges at different intensities (or maybe there's something else going on under the hood...?).  The result is a CC the pros of both Expression and Filter into one control, and (on woodwinds and brass), it sounds quite convincing.  Alongside VelXF, it can be used to "massage" through the VelXF layers to mask the phase-y shift that can occur, esp. in solo instruments.  Hence, why I think it's so useful for solo woodwinds!  At this point, only the Synchron Player has this feature.

That said, those articulate presets look mighty interesting!  I'll definitely take a look, thanks!

@LAJ said:

(... with hopefully a better Time Stretch-Performance. Literally NO ONE is able to manage bigger Projekts with this Time Stretch CPU-Killer. First I thought it was me or my computer. But the Library Testers on YouTube (With the latest PCs and Macs) are unhappy too.)

Yes, the Stretch Factor function just about lights my computer on fire the minute I activate it.  Glad to know I'm not the only one!

@symphonic riot said:

Hello Sam,

actually "timbre control" is available in VI pro when using Articulate Presets:

Unfortunately, it's not.  I'm specifically talking about "Timbre Adjust", which is a feature VSL recently introduced to the Synchron Player (coinciding with the release of Synchron Brass).  It's a proprietary intelligent filter control that behaves like a multiband expression fader, scaling different frequency ranges at different intensities (or maybe there's something else going on under the hood...?).  The result is a CC the pros of both Expression and Filter into one control, and (on woodwinds and brass), it sounds quite convincing.  Alongside VelXF, it can be used to "massage" through the VelXF layers to mask the phase-y shift that can occur, esp. in solo instruments.  Hence, why I think it's so useful for solo woodwinds!  At this point, only the Synchron Player has this feature.

That said, those articulate presets look mighty interesting!  I'll definitely take a look, thanks!

Oh sorry, I completely overlooked this new feature in the Synchron Player so far. This sound indeed very nice and I have to check out how this works. Thanks so much for the explanation!