Mixing in VEP, MIR Pro and my DAW (DP10)

[daerp]

I would love to hear advice on best practices re mixing in the following scenario.

I have a project in my DAW (Digital Performer 10) involving various reeds, brass, and percussion playing several different sequences (or 'chunks' as they are called in DP land. In Digital Performer there is a mixing board. All the sample libraries are in VEP7 arranged in 3 different instances organized by instrument family. Instruments are distributed to MIR Pro stages in their respective instances. Within MIR Pro and VEP7 I can mix 'easily'. (Mixing is never that easy, is it?). But the mixing board in Digital Performer seems to be disabled in favour of the mixing environment in VEP.

OK, fine. BUT. In DP I have multiple sequences. Each uses the same instrumentation but I need to mix each composition separately (of course). 

I have a feeling I've made my life more complicated by trying to be efficient. If I had access to the DP mixer I could deal with each sequence or 'chunk' on its own terms after getting all instruments nicely EQ'd and placed spatially in MIR Pro. That would require I was able to use the mixer in DP independent of VEP/MIR Pro..

All of this to say....

HELP.

I need advice.

Thank you.

Paul R

[Dietz]

I'm not too familiar with DP, but technically it should be possible to use individual outputs from VE Pro, isn't it? That way you could use your DAW's mixing console again.

Another option would be to remote-control VE Pro's fader by means of MIDI-faders in DP's mixing console (at least that's how it would work in Cubase/Nuendo). This would at least allow for volume automation in your main time-line.

HTH,

[daerp]

Thank you. Potentially helpful.

I say potentially as I don't know how to set up remote control of VEP's faders (other than the iPad remote controller). Is that set up from within VEP or is that set up in Cubase? I think I'm getting close to figuring this out. I'm glad to refer to the manual on this, but so far haven't got it nailed.

BTW, Digital Performer is perhaps closest to ProTools in its design, although of course it is unique. I'm surprised it is left out of many DAW discussions, but that is hardly important. I use it simply because I'm so familiar with it after decades of using it (since version 2!!!)

Thanks Dietz,

Paul

[Dewdman42]

Put the VePro.MAS plugin in a DP V-RACK.  The V-Rack can be shared between different chunks.  

The only problem is that automation through a V-Rack is a little more limited in DP, you can still send midi automation though.

I think mixing in VePro is a good way to go personally.  Then just bring back a few stereo stems into DP.  If you ever need to bring more channels back in order to mix in the DP V-Rack mixer, that is all possible too.

But for automation reasons, the truth is the DP will operate better if you put VePro.MAS into the mixer of each chunk...  and then you have the problem, I guess, that only one of them can be connected to the VePro instance at once.  I don't currently use DP anymore, so I don't actually know too much more than that....

[daerp]

Thanks for your post. My VEP MAS plugins are already in a V-Rack within the project I'm asking about. There actually separate VEP plugins for each instrument family. (One per instance). The V-Rack is shared by 7 'chunks' or sequences.

In his response (below/above) Dietz suggested automating the VEP mixing console from within DP. He says this works in Cubase, but he isn't sure about DP. I see no way to control VEP faders from the DP mixer. But there is plenty I don't know...of course.

I do an overall mix in VEP already (shared among the DP chunks). But each sequence in the DAW needs its own mix based on the musical demands of each composition. I can't do this because VEP blocks out any mix automation in DP. The mixer does nothing.

Is there a way to set VEP so that I can mix there and then do sub-mixes in DP (one for each chunk?).

I may pose this question in the MOTU forum. Perhaps someone over there has some similar experiences. In the meantime if you have further comment or if anyone else can chime in, that would be appreciated.

Paul R

PS. I need to learn the automation function in VEP. Since it was added years back, I have never used it. I guess I'm guilty of being a creature of old habits. :)

[Dewdman42]

As I said...normal automation is not available in a V-rack, (I think, check motunation to be sure).  But midi automation can be.

Automation has to be handled on a "timeline".  When you use a chunk sequence, it has a timeline.  So when you are hosting the instrument directly in the sequence, you have access to program automation for every parameter of every plugin you are using in that sequence.

However when you put a plugin in a V-Rack, then the V-Rack doesn't have a timeline and for whatever the reason DP does not (last time I checked), expose the automation parameters to a sequence, which is routing its midi to a V-Rack.  It only routes the midi.

So basically you can have in your chunk sequence, with the timeline, midi events which will be sent to the V-Rack.  How you convert those midi events into controlling VePro faders is a separate question.  VePro has its automation mapping facility which might be one way but I'm not sure if you can control the actual VePro mixer faders by using midi automation or not...and you would lose some resolution that way also since midi has a range of 0-127.

But as far as I can remember, DP does not expose plugin parameters from the V-Rack....to the chunk sequence timeline where they can be automated directly.

Hope that makes sense.

[Dewdman42]

ps - I just did a quick test with DP, and yes it works fine to automate midi.

1. setup midi track in chunk sequence
   
   
2. setup V-Rack with VePro plugin, route the midi track to that V-Rack plugin.
   
   
3. in the VePro instance, check out the "Midi Controllers" tab of the automation pane.  Add an entry that maps some CC, like CC20, to the volume fader you want to control in the VePro mixer.
   
   
4. go back to DP and in the chunk sequence, draw in some CC20 automation.  Hit play and watch the VePro fader move.

Like I said, however, the resolution of the fader will be greatly reduced, but may be good enough anyway.

[daerp]

Excellent. Lots for me to try here. I really appreciate your time and help.

Paul

[Dietz]

A shout-out to Dewdman42! Thanks for your suggestions. DP is one of the few DAWs I have little first-hand experience with myself. 8-)

[Dewdman42]

cheers

[Dewdman42]

k so I thought of another way to approach mixer automation with DP chunks and VePro... (EDIT, which I just realized Dietz already suggested ;-)

You can also configure a mixer for each chunk sequence.  You don't put the VePro.MAS plugin in that mixer, keep it in V-Rack, so that you can dynamically witch which chunk you're working with, as we talked about.

But in the mixer for each chunk sequence, just have a bunch of AUX channels.  These AUX channels can be configured to receive their audio input from Plugins that are in the V-Rack.  So you can Add audio outputs in VePro and then bring each audio output back to DP...those will get routed to the current chunk sequence...and then you can automate the actual DP faders of that mixer.  

I couldn't figure any way to automate plugin parameters of plugins in the V-Rack.  Maybe there is a way, but I looked into this a year or two ago and never figured out a way.  MOTU should really add that, but they haven't yet.

So basically your two main options are

1. automate VePro faders using midi
   
   
2. bring the audio from VePro back to the chunk sequence mixer and automate the DP faders of that.

[Seventh Sam]

@Dietz said:

A shout-out to Dewdman42! Thanks for your suggestions. DP is one of the few DAWs I have little first-hand experience with myself. 8-)

I second this shout-out. 🍺