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  • Please create a process mini-dump of the host after the issue appears (host the Synchron Player in Cubase and create the dump from the Cubase.exe process), please see the following image on how to create a minidump with process explorer:
    http://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/create-dump-1.png

    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processexplorer.aspx

    Send us the dump to support@vsl.co.at
    Hopefully this will help in the investigation.

    Many Thanks!


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • What version of Synchron Player when creating instrument in VEP 7? VST 3 or VST 2?

  • We use our own plugin-format inside VEP for our players.


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
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    @bbelius said:

    We use our own plugin-format inside VEP for our players.

    The drop off behavior happens on Synchron Player tracks in VEP 7, all softwares are the latest. And no note drops when using as instrument track in Cubase Pro (both VST 3 and 2). I’m on Mac OS Mojave.

  • I noticed Ben posted hints about editing BIOS, dumping Cubase and other Windows-only related stuff.

    For the rest of us that that are on Apple platform what should we do?
    Thanks


    Mac Studio M1 Ultra macOS Sonoma 14.6.1 Studio One 6.6
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    @bbelius said:

    We use our own plugin-format inside VEP for our players.



    The drop off behavior happens on Synchron Player tracks in VEP 7, all softwares are the latest. And no note drops when using as instrument track in Cubase Pro (both VST 3 and 2). I’m on Mac OS Mojave.

    I can tell you with absolutely certainty that it happens in VE Pro 7 because it does it for me on Windows 10.  It's the first place the issue arose and I put in a help ticket for it.

    For myself and Dave who have done all this testing above as well as many others who are simply not voicing it yet, it's not DAW or host specific and so far proven to do it in VE Pro 7, Studio One, Cubase, and Nuendo.

    With Ben just bringing to light that VE Pro 7 uses it's own proprietary version of Synchron Player, it just further shows it's specific to the Sychron Player and most likely nothing else.  We were able to quickly get to the fact that it's VST3 inside a DAW and VE Pro 7's version specifically.

    I would be cautious about making any adjustments to your systems, especially since I have risked and almost lost everything doing the tests I did above.  All to which amounted to absolutely no improvement.

    Christopher


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    @bbelius said:

    Please create a process mini-dump of the host after the issue appears (host the Synchron Player in Cubase and create the dump from the Cubase.exe process), please see the following image on how to create a minidump with process explorer:
    http://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/create-dump-1.png

    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processexplorer.aspx

    Send us the dump to support@vsl.co.at
    Hopefully this will help in the investigation.

    Many Thanks!

    I am trying to capture this tonight.  Does it only work in Cubase or will the one from Studio One also work?

    Christopher


  • Works with every host.


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Ben,

    I was able to reproduce it in Cubase pretty quickly.  I took a minidump while it was playing the song and crackling, popping and dropping the notes.  I also then stopped the song, let the computer catch up for about 30 seconds to calm down and took another minidump while it was sitting idle.  I was able to reproduce that as always, even when idle like that, the second I hit a note it drops it with the red disk.

    Here's my case number as I emailed a link to my OneDrive with the minidumps:

    Case 351129

    Thanks,

    Christopher


  • last edited
    last edited

    @bbelius said:

    Please create a process mini-dump of the host after the issue appears (host the Synchron Player in Cubase and create the dump from the Cubase.exe process), please see the following image on how to create a minidump with process explorer:
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processexplorer.aspx

    http://cloud.addictivetips.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/create-dump-1.png

    Send us the dump to support@vsl.co.at
    Hopefully this will help in the investigation.

    Many Thanks!


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    Hi Ben,

    I have 2 mini-dump files. They are about 175 MB. Too large for regular email. What is the best way to get them to you?

    Dave

     

    @bbelius said:

    Please create a process mini-dump of the host after the issue appears (host the Synchron Player in Cubase and create the dump from the Cubase.exe process), please see the following image on how to create a minidump with process explorer:
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processexplorer.aspx

    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processexplorer.aspx

    Send us the dump to support@vsl.co.at
    Hopefully this will help in the investigation.

    Many Thanks!


  • Thanks Christopher, I will look into it.
    @Dave you can use something like wetransfer.


    Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
  • Ok Ben,

    I sent you 2 mini dumps using we transfer. That was for the using Synchron VST3 plugins hosted in Cubase.

    Today I also had drop outs (red hard drive flashing) using VST2 plugins hosted in Cubase. So I am sending you 2 more mini dumps called, Cubase10a_VST2.dmp and Cubase10b_VST2.dmp

    Dave


  • I have an update: it seems that this issue occurs most often when soloing one track only.
    If I open the key editor for one single track and solo it, then dropouts occur, but if I un-solo it, no longer dropouts occur, at least in this simple test I am doing today


    Mac Studio M1 Ultra macOS Sonoma 14.6.1 Studio One 6.6
  • I haven't seen that behavior specifically on my system.  for me it happens to my entire song and all instruments in the song.  Once it happens to one, the entire song is rendered useless and a complete reboot and reload is required.  No amount of unmuting, unsoloing or any other measure resets it and makes them start working again for me.  This is true within VE Pro 7, Cubase 10.5, Nuendo 10 and Studio One v4.6.1 and v4.6.2 on Windows 10 Pro.

    The search continues.  Hopefully we get to a resolution on this as I am weeks behind and losing motivation and steam on my current projects.

    Christopher


  • I have the same problem, with or without VEP.

    I will try the new update today in the hope that this problem has been solved.

    Mac - 10.14.6, Cubase 10

    Regards

    Andy


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    @AndyP said:

    I have the same problem, with or without VEP.

    I will try the new update today in the hope that this problem has been solved.

    Mac - 10.14.6, Cubase 10

    Regards

    Andy

    Unfortunately the latest update did not fix the problem.


  • The plot thickens.

    I performed the update yesterday and the results are still the same.  Dropped voices.  However, now it comes witha new issue.  All of my Miracle instances are randomly ignoring their proper decay times.  For instance, I have a 9 second length on my Flute, it now plays a length of about 1 second.  My Solo Cello is now playing for 9 seconds, with a length parameter of 2 seconds.

    I hit the little "power off button" on the plugin, hit the "power on" the plugin again and it works as expected.

    I reboot or simply restart the song.  It does it all over again.

    Christopher


  • Here’s a hint at what this problem might be.  This discussion requires that the plugin is VST3 and is created using JUCE tool set. My understanding is that VSL uses JUCE.  If that is no longer true, then please disregard this post.  The VST3 assumption applies to VE Pro or individual plugins.  Using the VST2 version of VE Pro or the individual plugin instead of the VST3 version will eliminate the problem I am describing.

     

    My mental model of the problem is that there is a protocol mismatch in the interface between the host (e.g., Cubase, Dorico, etc.) and the plugin (e.g., VST3 version of VE Pro, Synchron Player, VI Pro, Pianoteq etc.).  The host assumes a single-stream serial MIDI protocol, and the plugin assumes a multi-stream timestamped MIDI protocol.  If two or more MIDI events occur with the same timestamp then (depending on what those events are) they might get reordered in the plugin.  I’ve seen this issue using Dorico and Pianoteq and using Dorico and VE Pro.

     

    In one example, an All Notes Off event occurred at the same timestamp as a Note On event.  They were ordered serially from the host as All Notes Off followed by the Note On.  But the plugin reordered these as Note On, followed by All Notes Off.  So notes were cut short.  This sounds exactly like what is occurring for some users in this thread.

     

    In another example, before Dorico introduced the notion of negative time in its MIDI stream, a condition occurred if you specified an articulation different from the default on the first note of a score and the plugin was using the VST3 version of VE Pro.  In this case, a Key-switch Articulation event occurred at the same timestamp as the Note On event.  Sometimes the correct articulation was respected.  But not always.  In every case, the subsequent notes respected the articulation event.  So the plugin was causing those events to be re-ordered some of the time.  It was repeatable that it occurred, but not repeatable every time.  So it was as if a race condition determined which event happened first.  Once negative time was introduced then the articulation events moved forward enough in time to ensure the correct ordering.     

     

    Both examples above did not fail in a consistent way.  They only failed some of the time, but often enough to be noticeable.

     

    I am sure there are other examples where the ordering can cause issues.  Particularly because the Synchron Player requires events to be in the correct order for articulation selection in the tree structure.  So if your tree structure is using key-switches for some branch and CCs for another, for example, then I suspect this will cause issues.  I don’t currently use this plugin for anything, so I haven’t experienced this first hand, but suspect this is possibly a problem.


  • So here is something while working with the VSL team that was suggested to me and at least seems to temporarily make them go away until it starts happening again.  At least I don't have to reboot or close my song and restart again.

    When the problem arises, open one of your existing instances of the Synchron Player and go to the Gear icon in the top right corner.  Click on the Engine Tab.  For the setting of "Streaming Threads" change your number to something other than what it is now.  Mine was set to 4.  I changed it to 6.  I then closed it.  Open it again and change it back to your original setting.  I changed mine back to 4.

    After doing that, the song worked again without having to reboot.  Took me like 10-15 seconds total.

    I am still working with the VSL Team as needed and they were finally able to reproduce it on their end after doing a teamviewer with me.

    Be curious if this helps others in this thread have to not reboot while VSL solves this issue.

    Christopher