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    @LAJ said:

    Edit 2:

    When it comes to the Synchron ( - Multi Mic Series ) ...
    What Dewdman writes is, that you could use (only) the Close Mics of the Synchron ( - Multi Mic Series ) and use those Close Recordings in MIR. Why not?
    Of course this does not work with Room mics or surround mics etc. since these recorded the instruments positioned.

    I don't have any of the full synchron multi-mic series so i can't say for sure, but yes I think if you use the close mics in a multi-mic product, then you should be able to run it through MirPro instead of using Synchron convolution and instead of using the distance mics.  Why not, exactly.  I have used EWHO close mics in exactly the same way into MirPro.

    I only have synchronized libs myself and those you just turn off convolution and algorithmic reverb in order to run into MirPro for other venues.  They seem to have some close mic presets, which aren't actual different mic positions, they are just presets with the reverbs turned off.


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    @jshamon said:

    LAJ

    Can i reiterate what you said, 

    We have Synchron Str 1, Sychron FX Str1, Synchron Percussion 1, Synchron Power Drums, Synchron Piano budle, all of these won't apply to what you said,

    the rest like Synchron-ized versions apply to what you said

    is that correct?

    and again the difference between the 2 set of Synchron is the Sychron-ized versions are the same VI version but edite and mapped to work with Synchron player, versus the other ones are newly recorded, correct?

    -John

    My understanding, until we hear otherwise from VSL, is that Synchronized are basically the same dry samples used with ViPro, but sometimes they may have introduced some new samples for various reasons or cleaned up the samples in some way, but still, same concept...dry samples...and then using convolution and algorithmic reverb derived from MirX to provide the Synchron room.  Aside from slight differences, its basicaslly the same as using VI version with MirX synchron room.

    The Full multi-mic synchron series have multiple mic positions recorded, some of which are the close mics, which are essentially the same objective as the VI dry samples.  With the full synchron series you can use the other distance mic positions, and I guess not have ot use MirX at all.  I don't know whether MirX convolution is included as an option in the synchron multi-mic products or not.  But in any case you could use the close mic presets to eliminate all the distance mics and run it into MirPro in order to get all the other venues as you wish.


  • Hi Dewdman42,

    Thanks for your explination, i'm still not sure what is muli mics and close mics are, i don't have any synchron products, but definitly i'm buying some.

    How do we do positioning and distances in Synchron series as we do using MirPro?

    Like in MirPro i have one mic- right? and all these objects that each represents a channel with an instrument(s) that is in each venue.

    Where are the other mics in synchron?

    -John


  • so sample libraries are made with mics in front of instruments.  If you put the mics close to the instruments, like as in inches away, then they will be very dry sounding very little to no room ambience in the sample.  As you move the mic further away the sound that is recorded will be different from a distance, and also, some of the room ambience will be recorded into the samples.  If you go REALLY far away, you will especially hear a lot of the room ambience.

    VI libraries were recorded very close, and I would guess they were probably also processed to be as dry as possible without any room ambience.  In order to make it sound like its on a stage in a room, you have to apply reverb and/or using something like MirPro to add the room ambience and stage positioning.

    If you use a mic that is further away, like at the front of the stage, then the mic will pick up various early reflections and other sonic clues that will reflect some of the room ambience as well as will pick up stereo field and stage positioning.  You can't hear that from the close mics, but from the front of the stage you can hear whether the sound was left or right on the stage, front or back, etc..and some of the reflections off the back wall, etc..room ambience.  

    If you are using close mic'd samples..then you have to add all of that info artificially using reverb and/or MirPro.

    If you record from way back in the room, then you pick up even more room ambience of the entire venue.  Again, the close mics don't really pick that up significantly.  So if you use close mic samples, you have to add that artificially using reverbs and/or MirPro.

    VI libraries basically required MirPro or MirX to truely sound like you are in a room.  MirPro has been a perfect companion to VI libraries.

    Many libraries provide multiple mic position samples.  So you buy the library and you get the samples that were recorded at close distance as well as mics further away., including very far away.  My EastWest Hollywood Orch, for example, includes close, mid, main and surround, and there is a mixer I can use to include in the sound any combination of those mic positions in the sound I hear.  You can use just one mic, or all of them, mixed any way you want.  In this way it picks up the room sound, the stage positioning, the timbre of the instruments, etc..and no artifically reverb is really needed.  But if I wanted it to sound like a different venue, then I can't really use all those mics because they sound like the room.  Except for the close mics.  So I can use only the close mics and then use artificial treatment such as reverb or mirPro to add the stage positioning and room sound...all the stuff that normally would be present in those further away mics.

    With Synchornized products, they basically took the close dry mic samples, similar as VI series, and packaged them into the Synchron player, mainly to use a newer player that some feel is easier to use.

    With the full synchron products, I guess they include some other mic positions which you can combine together like I do with EWHO without using any artificial reverb, you can hear it as it should hear in that venue..including all the stage positioning and room ambience.  If you use those fruther away mics, then the room sound is baked into it.  But you don't have to mess around with MirPro either.  However, its only one venue.  If you want to hear the product through other venus with different room sound, then just use the close mics....and run it through MirPro to use whatever venue you want to get a different room sound.

    I don't have any of the full synchron products, so my apologies if I have some details wrong about the exact specifics.  


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    @jshamon said:

    1. ... i'm still not sure what is muli mics and close mics are, i don't have any synchron products ...

    2. ... MirPro i have one mic- right?

    1. Jshamon, the best way to understand the differences is to try it out. Why don't you load the FREE Big Bang Orchestra? It is a Synchron Product too and you will see the differences between Roomsound VS Close Sounds by opening and closing the different channels.

    2. Vienna MIR Pro has a second Microphone as an Option which makes the sound a little thicker. maybe you can get a demoversion from the Viennese.


  • Thanks A LOT Dewdman

    Now i understand what is going on (it is funny that i'm studying reverb and room reflections while i'm asking what are the use of these muliple mics) :-)

    So by using muliple mics and panning, i can create the same effects with Synchron as in MirPro.

    So in MirPro, you can adjust the distance of the object AND then still you can adjust the wet/dry ratio, from my understanding now, with Synchron, you can adjust panning and distance,  and close mics and far mics for the wet/dry ratio (if Synchron lets you do that)

     

    LAJ, i downloaded it but have not worked on it yet, somethign didn't work right and i did not have time for it, i will work on it for sure.

     

    -John


  • Hmm, well I'm poking around in Big Bang and I can't figure out how to get close mics isolated..there is always some room ambience.  Not as straightforward as I thought, so I am going to revise what I said before...  With Synchronzied libs its easy enough to turn off convolution or algo reverb and get a dry sound to feed MirPro.  It does not appear to be nearly as straightward with Big Bang, which is a full synchron library...  Until I hear otherwise I am going to say that it has the room baked in...which is generally not suitable to use with MirPro.

    Maybe someone knows how to get the close mics isolated though..I clearly don't know what I'm doing with it.


  • jshamon,

    Synchron products are designed in a way that you don't need MirPro.  The room ambience is included.  MirPro can easily be used with Synchronized products if you want it to sound like a different room other then the Synchron venue.  Its not clear to me right now whether this can be done with the full synchron libraries.



  • yeah ok, you hear it in BBO because you have groups playing. Then ... if you load a Synchron Drum like the Giant Taiko which you maybe (hopefully) received with VE Pro 7 and you Play only the Close Channel in MIR, you will succeed. 

    I named the BBO because it is free. The drums are of course better examples whe it comes to closesound experiments.


  • good to know.  Unfortunately I missed the early adopter taiko drums so I don't have them.  The only other non-synchronized lib I have for synchon is smart orchestra and somehow I have a feeling its not isolate there either.



  • Funny to read because smart orchestra and smart spheres are the only 2 VSLproducts I do not have at the moment. I even received the Taiko Drum in 2 different sales actions (1. SY Percussions I AND 2. VEPro 7). Theoretically I could give you one plus my Epic Orchestra 2 because I have no use for it ... but I fear this is not allowed.


  • If there is a seperate license for it that you have two of, then you can sell one, but they will charge the transfer fee whatever it is.


  • Epic Orch 2, I do have that.  But I removed it because I dont' really need since I have Full Cube and just about every other meaningful VI add on...so its not on my hard drive, but you have a good point I could try that out in order to understand the synchron multi-mic approach a little better.



  • I took a look into my license-jungle ... no separate licenses for the BonusTaiko.


  • :-)  Thanks for thinking of it anyway.


  • Maybe in practice it ends up not mattering, but something bugs me about "abusing" Synchron close mics and putting the instruments through MIR.  Especially considering the pristine aspect of the sound of VSL.  The close mics are for Synchron performances, to clarify or isolate solos, etc. within that stage. 

    Though I'm not insisting on that - maybe the difference isn't audible...


  • Finally i got BigBang working, finally i saw Sychron player .. it is a piece of beauty .. i was reading different threads and i can't believe some criticized it so bad (I don't want to repeat what he said).. i can't even believe i read that.

    It is very well formatted, very intuitive and easy to navigate (at least works better with big monitors and resolution) far better then VI player (in my opinion), just the latter happened to be developed long time ago.

    Also, everyting works the same with VEpro, i loaded up Sych player and took off the ambience and used up some venues from MIRpro ..man this thing still works... the sound was not dry in the first place but for what i have tried, the additional of MIRpro pluging added a huge trailing reverb which was just awesome by itself even if there is no direct use of it, my point is MIRpro still works with Sychron, i thought it would be just disabled (as a software when you are in Sychron environement)

    I think there are still tone of tweaks that can do with Sychron sounds but really smart and intuitive and won't make you use up all the time to build the sound.

    I think i'm going to invest in Sychron series, grab that ready AWEsome brass swell that I need to spend some time to build and just focus on my songs and music sheet. All the dry sound fan, don't feel bad .. you started 10 years ago and you are ahead of me 10 years.

     

    -John


  • Hi Paul,

    I finally made up my mind, used up Christmas discounts and voucher and bought the whole Sychron package.

    the synchron player is a piece of art, the articulations, slots, short long can't get better than this, i just love it, everything is concise clear and intuitive, i love the CPU monitor, i don't even know if the performace improved vs VI series or not as i hit max of 30% CPU with my "peaks" after playing lots of notes.

    The sound library and all acoustics that came with it, mics etc .. it is just amazing.

    I think the story with Sychron is beyond dry and wet sounds. the whole thing is different.

    spent a lot of $$$ but totally worth it, one thing i noticed, i don't see Choir in the package? any idea?

    now i started baking my first song in Sychron....

    Just another note, if you are buying the package, you better buy at least 3TB SSD, not 2TB, the library goes over 2TB around 2.2TB

    Great job VSL, I'm very impressed

    -John


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    Hi John, 

    Thanks for your feedback, great to read!

    We are re-editing and optimizing all samples in the conversion process to the Synchron Player, which is a time-consuming process, but it provides that extra sound and playability for all SYNCHRON-ized products. Would be great to have all our VI Collections converted already, but that will be a longer process.

    The crossgrade prices from a VI Collection to the corresponding SY-ized product will always be VERY fair, so if you need voices, check out what we have to offer!

    Enjoy your new sounds, and keep us in the loop with your progress and impressions 😊

    Best, 
    Paul


    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL