I wonder how the futuristic Metropolis-inspired VLS logo would look like, with a wig!
Paolo
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I'm in need of late-Renaissance/Baroque instruments, and unfortunately there are very few of them. I guess they are not exactly mainstream.
What do we have, as of now, from Itchy's list?
- A dulcian exists in Fluffy's Rinascimento, and one in Best Service's Ethno World (this one isn't even listed in the manual, and has the odd name of "ducaine"). EW's one is very limited in dynamics and articulations. Not bad for giving a flavor of Renaissance, but not great for a realistic mockup. Simulating it with a modern bassoon is out of question, for how different it sounds. Smaller dulcianas, very often used at the time, are not available anywhere.
- Baroque bassoon seems to be unavailable anywhere. But could we consider a moder bassoon, with the n.v. articulations, a viable replacement? Mostly, I think the difference is in playing style and extension.
- Sackbut is available in Rinascimento, and Tarilonte's Era II. This latter only plays f-ff, and seems more intended for giving a hint of the sound of festive events. No way to use it for subdued and nuanced Flemish/Venetian sacred music. I find that modern trombones can simulate the soft dynamic range. In particular, by mixing n.v. sustains and soft-attack portato articulations. Higher dynamics sound very different, however, so there is no replacement in VSL's library.
(By the way: did I say anything about how much I need late-Renaissance brass? Ab oriente venerunt magi)
- Judging from the libraries I have and the demos I could listen to, the only good viola da gamba is the one made by Cinesamples. This is the only one I can think of that could stand next to a future VSL one. Only one size, however.
- Baroque strings: Philippe has shown how good Dimension Strings are, for this task. We still lack ornaments. VSL has stopped recording trills in the latest libraries. But informed performers spend a lot of time in their life to learn how to play them as they should. I doubt I could replicate them with my ordinary skills. Actually, I can't even play an ordinary trill as well as a recorded performer.
Paolo
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- Paolo, there’s an authentic Baroque Bassoon instrument out there[img]null[/img]
- re: sackbuts for use in double-choir pieces (Willaert, Gabrieli, et al.) and with cornetti in general: I have the Rinascimento library but haven't dug in yet.
- Would it be at all convincing to make a composite pseudo-sackbut emulation ...at least for certain limited ranges & limited dynamics? Maybe adding customized EQ in addition to a dynamic LP filter? I've got VSL's Organ, Cimbasso, Wagner Tuba, Flugelhorn, & Bass Trumpet as ingredients. What do you think? Has anyone experimented with using the attack of one horn but the body & tail of another?
- I think I read somewhere the idea of a mickey-mouse cornetto by combining flugelhorn & heckelphone. Not quite. :)
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Itchy, thank you for the pointer toward the Baroque Bassoon!
William, probably because you know French, and the mix of English and French in that sentence is devastating! :)
The specialists I know, here, call it "Renaissance Trombone", to avoid any misunderstunding and legal problems.
Paolo
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. Thanks William. I have HW1 & HW2. The serpent is great, and I couldn’t ask for a more well-sampled cornett!!
. Your point about spoiling the authentic aesthetic is well-taken, and perhaps even a definitive opinion. Yes, my idea may indeed be silly but sometimes we try to do what we can when the ideal isn’t a possibility. :)
. Re: “estimating” a renaissance-trombone section… mine will be more of a mixed consort. :) But, in the spirit of keeping options open and looking outside the box, maybe I’ll find I should just settle for trombones-only for now. otoh, maybe adding a soft, high cimbasso, &/or a limited wagner tuba, &/or a tamed bass trumpet to a modern, EQ’d, limited, trombone section could be in the ballpark for my purpose.
. Thanks Paolo for reminding me of the renaissance trombone in Fluffy's Rinascimento. Can you tell us, how is Tarilonte's Era II cornett? imo, Fluffy's "soprano cornett" is sub-par for its lower 2/3 or more of it's range, but the package includes Baroque Guitar & some other nice sounds.
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Can you tell us, how is Tarilonte's Era II cornett?
Sub-par, as well. It sounds as lacking dynamics layers, and is very uni-dimensional. It seems as if it was there just to add some color.
As soon as I can, I'll post a comparison with VSL's one.
Paolo
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Paola I don’t know French but now I am intrigued! What do you mean by devastating?
William, it just sounds obscene, like in English. More for the idea of movement suggested by the juxtaposed composing words. But it has also some roots in the literary history, with Rabelais citing the name of the instrument in some situations. One is when some monks want to be fast with the mass, because they want to go satysfying their stomach as soon as possible. And so, one of them says:
"Car en ayant très-bien desjeusné et repu à usage monachal, si d'adventure il nous chante de Requiem, je y eusse porté pain et vin par les traicts passés. Patience. Saquez, choquez, boutez; mais troussez-la court, de paour que ne se crotte, et pour aultre cause aussi, je vous prie."
"For, had I eaten a good breakfast and fed like a monk, if he should chance to sing us the Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, I had then brought thither bread and wine for the traits passes (those that are gone before). Well, patience; pull away, and save tide; short and sweet, I pray you, and this for a cause."
The versions in modern French lose any reference to the musical instrument, by replacing the original "saquez, choquez, boutez" with a poor "dégainez, frappez, boutez".
Paolo
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Paolo, that is funny, thanks for that info.
I was thinking that what is happening in English is: Sack-but(t) = Fat-ass
Sorry, I realized that is crude and not at all in keeping with proper language on the website of a fine company dedicated to the highest standards of musical excellence. Also, I mean no offense to all the sackbuts out there. No matter how much weight they have to lose.
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@Itchy an all other forum members: As you might know, this is a company driven maEssage board. May I politely ask you to refrain from posting ads for competitor's products. Places like VI Control or the like would be the place for that. Thanks!
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
this is a company driven massage board.
What a pleasant surprise😊
When did VSL started offering massages? That's what I like about VSL they are always ahead of the zeitgeist. I expect the competition to soon follow suit and start offereing sackbut massages too😛😛😛
(I'm sorry Dietz I just couldn't resist.) I hope my humour helped brighten your day as it was all meant in good fun 😃
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Dietz, point taken; my apologies. Please know, fwiw, I posted the pic in an effort to assist a fellow-VSL user; only intended as a visual statement that a certain instrument exists. That said, this was [i]my bad[/i]. In the bigger scope of the word, I see that sort of thing is indeed an [i]advertisement[/i].
