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While there isn't a library of authentic baroque strings, I think we can at least have a St. Martin-in-the-fields-like pseudo-baroque sound with the existing library.
Considering that Harnoncourt was Austrian, a library of baroque strings would be at the right place in the VSL catalogue. Vegetarians will not be allowed to buy it.
Paolo
Hi,
here are some baroque / post baroque demos I did with the available VSL strings libraries (Solo, chamber and Dimension) :
J.S.BACH - B Mass - Qui Sedes ad dexteram patris
J.Ph. RAMEAU - Nais - Pastorale héroïque - Ouverture
J.S BACH - Harpsichord concerto BWV 1058 mixed in MIR PRO
CPE BACH - Flute concerto WQ 166 - First mouvement - Figured bass not yet realized
Woodwinds are not from historic winds. I should consider to remix with the new HW libraries ...
It's difficult do something satisfying with the few usables articulations of the availlable libraries So, i totally agree : a baroque strings library would be a GREAT idea !
Best.
Philippe
Another vote/request for VSL Baroque Strings Library (Recorded in Synchron Hall).
No developer so far has produced a serious, high-quality Baroque Strings Library, it would be fantastic if VSL would be the first to do this. Instant buy for me !
Guys, I'm so happy about you posting nice ideas (which I totally subscribe)... but...
May I remind you that the thread was about "Historic Winds" (actually about Reeds by the way)?
😃 Doesn't sounds a bit weird discussing Strings instead?
all the best
Fabio
In these modern times, very little appears to be "weird" or "strange".
I brought up the strings because I saw the word: 'historic'. Also, Paul appeared to be encouring ideas of other possible products.
However, an important point was brought up about other historic winds. I firmly believe that a baroque Bassoon is essential. With the two Bassoons already available, users could layer the three instruments if desired. I think a Sackbut was used in the baroque era instead of a trombone. Now, I will be "weird" again: I would love to see a lute and a mandolin. How does anyone feel about a Viola d'amore?
I'm in need of late-Renaissance/Baroque instruments, and unfortunately there are very few of them. I guess they are not exactly mainstream.
What do we have, as of now, from Itchy's list?
- A dulcian exists in Fluffy's Rinascimento, and one in Best Service's Ethno World (this one isn't even listed in the manual, and has the odd name of "ducaine"). EW's one is very limited in dynamics and articulations. Not bad for giving a flavor of Renaissance, but not great for a realistic mockup. Simulating it with a modern bassoon is out of question, for how different it sounds. Smaller dulcianas, very often used at the time, are not available anywhere.
- Baroque bassoon seems to be unavailable anywhere. But could we consider a moder bassoon, with the n.v. articulations, a viable replacement? Mostly, I think the difference is in playing style and extension.
- Sackbut is available in Rinascimento, and Tarilonte's Era II. This latter only plays f-ff, and seems more intended for giving a hint of the sound of festive events. No way to use it for subdued and nuanced Flemish/Venetian sacred music. I find that modern trombones can simulate the soft dynamic range. In particular, by mixing n.v. sustains and soft-attack portato articulations. Higher dynamics sound very different, however, so there is no replacement in VSL's library.
(By the way: did I say anything about how much I need late-Renaissance brass? Ab oriente venerunt magi)
- Judging from the libraries I have and the demos I could listen to, the only good viola da gamba is the one made by Cinesamples. This is the only one I can think of that could stand next to a future VSL one. Only one size, however.
- Baroque strings: Philippe has shown how good Dimension Strings are, for this task. We still lack ornaments. VSL has stopped recording trills in the latest libraries. But informed performers spend a lot of time in their life to learn how to play them as they should. I doubt I could replicate them with my ordinary skills. Actually, I can't even play an ordinary trill as well as a recorded performer.
Paolo
Itchy, thank you for the pointer toward the Baroque Bassoon!
William, probably because you know French, and the mix of English and French in that sentence is devastating! :)
The specialists I know, here, call it "Renaissance Trombone", to avoid any misunderstunding and legal problems.
Paolo
. Thanks William. I have HW1 & HW2. The serpent is great, and I couldn’t ask for a more well-sampled cornett!!
. Your point about spoiling the authentic aesthetic is well-taken, and perhaps even a definitive opinion. Yes, my idea may indeed be silly but sometimes we try to do what we can when the ideal isn’t a possibility. :)
. Re: “estimating” a renaissance-trombone section… mine will be more of a mixed consort. :) But, in the spirit of keeping options open and looking outside the box, maybe I’ll find I should just settle for trombones-only for now. otoh, maybe adding a soft, high cimbasso, &/or a limited wagner tuba, &/or a tamed bass trumpet to a modern, EQ’d, limited, trombone section could be in the ballpark for my purpose.
. Thanks Paolo for reminding me of the renaissance trombone in Fluffy's Rinascimento. Can you tell us, how is Tarilonte's Era II cornett? imo, Fluffy's "soprano cornett" is sub-par for its lower 2/3 or more of it's range, but the package includes Baroque Guitar & some other nice sounds.
Can you tell us, how is Tarilonte's Era II cornett?
Sub-par, as well. It sounds as lacking dynamics layers, and is very uni-dimensional. It seems as if it was there just to add some color.
As soon as I can, I'll post a comparison with VSL's one.
Paolo
Paola I don’t know French but now I am intrigued! What do you mean by devastating?
William, it just sounds obscene, like in English. More for the idea of movement suggested by the juxtaposed composing words. But it has also some roots in the literary history, with Rabelais citing the name of the instrument in some situations. One is when some monks want to be fast with the mass, because they want to go satysfying their stomach as soon as possible. And so, one of them says:
"Car en ayant très-bien desjeusné et repu à usage monachal, si d'adventure il nous chante de Requiem, je y eusse porté pain et vin par les traicts passés. Patience. Saquez, choquez, boutez; mais troussez-la court, de paour que ne se crotte, et pour aultre cause aussi, je vous prie."
"For, had I eaten a good breakfast and fed like a monk, if he should chance to sing us the Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, I had then brought thither bread and wine for the traits passes (those that are gone before). Well, patience; pull away, and save tide; short and sweet, I pray you, and this for a cause."
The versions in modern French lose any reference to the musical instrument, by replacing the original "saquez, choquez, boutez" with a poor "dégainez, frappez, boutez".
Paolo
Paolo, that is funny, thanks for that info.
I was thinking that what is happening in English is: Sack-but(t) = Fat-ass
Sorry, I realized that is crude and not at all in keeping with proper language on the website of a fine company dedicated to the highest standards of musical excellence. Also, I mean no offense to all the sackbuts out there. No matter how much weight they have to lose.
