mh7635

You are dead wrong.   A slur DOES NOT MEAN ONE BOW -  it is used in music notation for different meanings.  Countless scores have slurs that last for far more notes than can be taken on one bow, and it is not a matter of a composer knowing how to write for strings.  It is just as often used for PHRASING, to indicate a general legato that is accomplished with multiple bows or fingered legato.  And it is not a matter of knowing how to write for strings - string players always figure out their own bowings - often with a concert master indicating how to bow a section - and what the composer writes is only a general indication of bowing.  And that is why a slur marking could never be an absolute indication of bowing.  

Look Kersten, in the context of this discusssion, a slur over notes in string writing is more often than not indicitave of bow changes. Of course I know about longer phrase slurs and other uses, did you really have to clarify that for me, thinking I didn't know? But, given the discussion, my post above was chiming with your pov to a certain extent anyhow, suggesting you are right in some cases, not that you'd see that.  

Oh and by the way, it is always a matter of knowing how to write well for strings and that includes bowing technique if you want to write to a high standard. In all my pro sessions I have only ever had one discussion about alternative bows, so I do know something about it. 

How do you expect a composer to exploit in a creative, compositional emotional manner, bowing techniques that inform and enhance his/her work if they do not t know about them?...well?

Look mh7635 -

open up your score of Beethoven's 3rd 1st movement bar 140-141.  That is an example of phrasing INDICATED BY A SLUR that cannot be played on one bow and never would be attempted.  

Or maybe you don't think Beethoven knew how to write for strings. 

Don't announce as a fact something that is simply false and expect moronic acquiescence.  

What is the matter with you.....Can't you read? I know about slurs used for phrasing and once more, just for you...I know about bowing. I am not saying anything at all derogatory about long phrase slurs nor am I saying that long slurs are indicitive of ignorance or bad practice.  Modern scoring practice and composing utilises more bowing effects than Beethoven's time and it is that resource that is a wonderful asset to have as a composer because only when you know about it, can you use it and exploit it for your own end....that kersten, is a fact. 

Get your head in it.....

So in other words we are yelling at each about something we agree on.  

All right, I will cease and desist, and go write some phrasing slurs.  

@William said:

You are dead wrong.   A slur DOES NOT MEAN ONE BOW

@jasensmith said:

Before I entered  VSL world, I was taught that Staccato just meant shortened unnattached notes in a series but to VSL staccatos are short notes with a very hard attack.  So in scores where I find staccatos written I end up using Portatos/detaches instead because the attacks are softer..

This is something I struggle with from time to time. Sometimes at lower velocities I can get the staccato articulation to work as a moderately fast detache. The short detache has a softer attack, and sometimes it will work for those passages, other times the attack is too soft. So many variables involved. Sometimes I use both articulations, starting with a staccato at the beginning of a motive then switch to the softer short detache for the rest of the motive. It depends on the phrasing and tempo. At faster tempos, I may switch to spiccato and treat it more like a sautille.

I'm speaking mainly about the solo strings library, but it also applies to chambers strings.

What I wouldn't give for an on the bow sampled detache that worked every time, but I'm beginning to thing such a thing isn't possible. The times I've gotten closest to sounding like a real performance have always involved switching articulations relatively often, sometimes every few notes, are in some cases, every note. Something about that variety that adds an organic flavor.

"We are talking about precise articulations. Yes we know about extended slurs, this is a global and secondary usage and it doesn't help us about the subject of this topic," - javajam

No you weren't.  You were stating that slurred means one bow, and that is what I was contradicting - so now you have changed the subject.    

The original subject was about samples, not your silly concepts of slurs.   I have had the same question that fatis had about this, and have not used the so-called "slurred legato" articulations.  

But you know what? I am so utterly bored with this -   go ahead, use "slur" any way you want to.

@William said:

That is absolutely FALSE... You are dead wrong... not your silly concepts of slurs...
But you know what? I am so utterly bored with this -   go ahead, use "slur" any way you want to.

Sorry javajam, I get overly excited by slurs.  

So here is the actual difference - I was wondering about this and did a test - exact same arpeggios with same velocity -

normal legato

slurred legato