I don't own Dim Brass I. I'm thinking about getting this library for a while now. Is there a reason for me to get the VI version? (I own VI Pro, MIR + Syn Stage)
Ben@VSL | IT & Product Specialist
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Hi,
the product page does not show a full version, so how are mics set up in the standard version?
Thanks.Since it is a "synchro-nized" (original VI-) Library there will presumably be only one Microphoneposition but the MIR-Synchronstage Responses to make them acoustically compatible with original Synchron-Libraries.
The better questions will be perhaps:
- Are the Synchronized standard libraries from the sample content equal to the VI-Standard or to full Dimension-Brass?
- And if they compare only to the VI-standard version why do you need to own the Full-VI-Library to upgrade just to the "standard" synchronized Library? ...or
- If the Synchronized Standard-Version already includes the sample-content of the Full-VI-Version, why is it called "standard"? since it seems not that probable that there will be that much more extended content left to synchronize later for another synchronized Full-Version. different to the VI-Full-Version.
That seems to me currently just a bit confusing while I nevertheless wellcome the first Dimension-Library to be synchronized and hope strongly aswell for synchronized Dimension Strings as for mopre original Synchron-Libraries to come. 😃
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Hi Paul, It's not about attitude, just reality. Low brass range is uncomplete. My question is: has the range been extended in the 'Full' library? BTW, if I don't miss anything, 'Full' means full.
javajam, to be fair, VSL has always used the term “full” vs. “standard” as having the extra “articulations” not “instruments”. Now having said that, i wish VSL returns to the earlier synchron-ized libraries and give them same treatment, i.e. same full set of articulations, round robins, dynamics, etc.. to make them identical to their vi counterparts. Of course the challenge for VSL is not have existing customers pay for what they have again just to be able to use “VI Pro v. 3”. My $0.02
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javajam, to be fair, VSL has always used the term “full” vs. “standard” as having the extra “articulations” not “instruments”.
Thank you for using the word 'fair', msanioura, here we are, this is the word.
So yes the word 'Full' applies to articulations indeed. Which company should dare to state 'Hey, our instruments cover the full range of the instruments, amazing!!!'. None... Furthermore, who should expect for a 'full' library with uncomplete range? No one too I guess.
And yet that's what still happens with Dimension Brass. So, is it really 'fair' to sell a library with some instruments having a dramatically uncomplete range while this is not being stated anywhere? And to now sell the expanded 'Full' library with still not one single info about it? It looks to be particularly difficult to tell, Paul, you didn't even dare to really say it, only did you concede that the range 'has not been expanded'. Maybe I can help you, you're welcome:
IN DIMENSION BRASS, THE LOW BRASS RANGE IS UNCOMPLETE AND LIMITED.
WHATEVER STANDARD OR FULL.
You first argued the Low brass were 'still completely usable', Paul… seriously? Should you say that for a violin not going beyond the D string? I guess not... And yet that's what occurs with the Low Brass. Not that fair.
You told about my 'attitude', Paul. I can easily tell you about my attitude. I've been smart and very patient like many others for a while. I didn't dive head first into the SY Strings discussion war, I had to test and listen deeper first. I did yet. And what's my feeling then? I'm (quite silently until now) feeling like having been fooled, like many others, again. I spent 637,50€ (VAT excluded) for something I will barely use. Let's talk about articulations: sforzato is an artificial edited thing, some short articulation added to a sustained one. The FortePiano is anything but an fp, just a quieter sfz. The slurred articulation, seriously, slurred… I won't talk about the legato, no need to I guess. To sum up, less recorded samples and more edited (and fake) articulations. Still not fair.
I can talk about Dimension Strings too. I never understood why no 2nd violins but let's go to the transposition trick to build them. Starting from the point that VSL claims they 'recorded each string of each instrument in its full range', we should have good reasons to think each instrument has been recorded chromatically, I mean one note/one sample, right? Following we could expect for using a semitone step for the transposition, right again? Nope… Dimension Strings are not sampled (or edited) chromatically and we'll have to use a full tone transposition instead. What should I think about this 'full range' assertion then, is that fair again? And like all embarrassing questions (including the Low Brass one), this one didn't get any reply from the staff, Paul, ever…
Maybe we are very demanding but we have some reasons for that. We've been considering (I did at least) VSL to be a 'fair' and serious company, unlike some companies who provide unfair commercial and support practices (East something) or others who sacrify customers to marketing etc. That's why we are very demanding and it might explain our disappointment, at least mine.
So, to get back to the Dimension Brass, will I go to the Full version for about 200€? I don't know. I don't trust what's stated anymore. I know everything is 'a new chapter in the history of sampling technology', absolutely striking, fantastic, unique, outstanding, incredibly amazing... But in the end, will I end up with some fake articulations? And for sure with some still uncomplete instruments…
You know what? VEpro is the most stable and reliable software I've ever used, impressive. Synchron Player looks to be a great step forwards with improved and easier articulation control. Vienna Suite has been a (positive) shock at the time I bought it and I'm still using the EQ daily, anywhere, for anything. I'm regularly using Symphonic Cube for brass and woodwinds (all extended) and Mir Pro as well. I spent more than 10k€ in VSL libraries & softwares all those years. But yet, I'll really think twice before going for some next VSL product. Trust is broken and I'm expecting for way more transparency and truth. Attitude has to see with confidence, accuracy and reciprocity.
Best,
Alain
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I wanted to clear up some misinformation by the "javajam" person -
The "low brass" are very useable, in fact they represent the normal "low brass" range. Any orchestrator will like this range for general "low brass" useage. They are not intended to represent the entire possible range of each individual instrument. They are - as part of the Dimension library approach - strictly for orchestral use in the normally desired range. They go very low. In fact to the bottom of each instrument range. One does find the complete possible range - with higher notes - in the solo instruments with tubas, bass trombone, and tenor trombone. However, this "low" range was done deliberately to utilize the Dimension recording technique of solo/ensemble versatility in the normal "low brass" range. Also, it should be noted that the Dimension trombones, with 4 players, have a much wider range than the "low brass" trombones.
So contrary to what this person states, the Dimension Brass are fantastically useable and an excellent library.
I am really glad to hear about the new articulations for both VI and Synchron to add to an already fabulous library.
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Hi Paul,
Low brass range is uncomplete.I do have the impression, that you perhaps do not understand the special character of the dimension-Brass-Library.
If you are looking for each single instrument of the traditional orchestral low brass section you will find all each in their certain "complete" range as Part of the Orchestral Brass.
The Idea of the dimension-Brass was, to give the impression of seperate recorded ensembleinstruments, what means that each sample of a certain instruments comes with a bit of the sound of the whole ensemble, therefore the possible range is limited to the range which is available for all other instruments of the ensemble, not only to the range of the instrument which is recorded. So I assume what you get is the complete range which is possible to be played without any instrument of the ensemble missing.
If you are just looking for each single instrument not as part of an ensemblke, but solo in it own range just go for orchestral brass, everything is already there.
I hope I was able to clear perhaps some misunderstandings.
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Trombone up to C6? You mean two octaves above middle C?
I hope they don't go that high!....and I'm a pro trombone player!
Two octaves above middle C is in the 'freak zone' of playing and no one would ever compose any 'playable' piece of music with that note in it. Maybe a special commission for a freaky player....but even then, it'd be a miracle if it got played correctly.
And in a sample library? Why? That's trumpet range. Trombone samples sound like bad trumpets if transposed up that high.
Now....one octave above middle C is to be normally expected for any orchestral or any other music. Go on up to a D for sure. (ie: Brahms 2nd...brilliant writing for trombones!)
Anything above that is seldom written or played in orchestral literature, or requires an Alto trombone.
Excellent Jazz players will play up there usually without problem. (Bb, C, D, Eb, F)
