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I agree with you in some part, Martin,
but I like the playability and sound of VSL Vienna Imperial very much with the fact that it express the character of the Bosendorfer 290,
I respect others like you because it is a personal taste, but there are so many who are satisfied with the sound of VSL Vienna Imperial like me :)
Please have a look at my post from March 19th, last question 6.:
"The number of samples per key (approx. 480) [VSL YAMAHA CFX] seems to be much lower compared to the recorded samples per key (up to 1.200) for the "VIENNA IMPERIAL".
Because of that information on p. 21 in the "VSL Catalog 2018" I asked : "Will there be a Standard-Library and a Full-Library or Special Edition/PLUS Volume for the "YAMAHA CFX" with more recorded samples per key and more velocity layers?"
Behind this is my assumption that the new VSL YAMAHA CFX library will probably have significantly fewer layers than the VSL VIENNA IMPERIAL library from 2009 with its 100 layers.
So, I'm completely with you. But the BÖSENDORFER IMPERIAL 290 is not my grand piano. I've never played an Imperial with which I was happy with. And I've played a lot. But I don't like this model. In contrast, I immediately found that the sound and the action of the old model 280 - which is actually a not so old model, in fact it was introduced in 2001 as the successor of the model 275 - is just fantastic. The same with its successor, the new model 280VC, which debuted in 2015.
BÖSENDORFER had a lot of bad luck with very questionable decisions in the past. For that they finally got their receipt in 2007. YAMAHA receives the "crown jewels" in piano making from BÖSENDORFER. For this, BÖSENDORFER gets the right to survive from YAMAHA, but just like a dog on a short leash. So, whether his master will allow it to be on stage of the major international piano competitions in Warsaw and Moscow? Cause their new concert-grand-model 280VC is of course absolutely fantastic and at eye level with STEINWAY & SONS, SHIGERU KAWAI, FAZIOLI and YAMAHA.
And what do i have of 100 layers of a model which I do not like?!? And more than 127 layers...? With normal MIDI-programming? Don't understand exactly what you mean...
On the other hand, the 1024 dynamic levels on a reproducing grand like the BÖSENDORFER 290SE - the digital reproducing technology, the so called SE-system, was developed by genious American engineer Wayne Stahnke in the late '70s, first delivery to a private customer in June 1978, and was then licensed to BÖSENDORFER, who built 37 SE-grands from 1984-1986 - played in a total different league than the CEUS-system from the same company. And again, BÖSENDORFER's CEUS - which was introduced to the market about 30 years later in June 2007 - with its 250 reproducing levels is (better say was!) an inferior reproducing system in terms of timing and precision. Maybe for private use it was more elegant in terms of handling - for professional use it had several serious disadvantages. BTW, from 1991 to 2001, Wayne Stahnke worked for YAMAHA as a member of the Disklavier PRO design team, which was the answer to the Stahnke Engineering BÖSENDORFER SE. Funny!
To make it clear: Look at the technical specs and you will see, that the CEUS-system was a step backwards to Stahnke's SE-system. And CEUS was much to expensive. Does anyone remember the CEUSmaster-project? Years over years of configuration with 3 prototypes at a total. Even in February 2007 you could read: "The 'CeusMaster' is to be established in the medium term as a profit center for BÖSENDORFER." In the end, no profit center but a cost grave and no CEUSmaster, no digital BÖSENDORFER. YAMAHA finished that long-time-drama in 2008 and the two "leading heads" of that project left BÖSENDORFER. Short time after, who would have thought that, in 2009 YAMAHA'S AVANTGRAND hybrids as the successor to their former GRANTOUCH hybrids from the '90s debuted to the market.
Back to the actual topic: For sampled layers in combination with editing the recorded session, the old MIDI with its 127 levels are the maximum at the moment. Even YAMAHA/STEINBERG is not able to deliver a software editor for its high-resolution XP data (XP for "eXtended Precision"). In the past there was such an editor in the market, called RePerform from ZENPH Sound Innovations, the genious Dr. John Walker. With that editor for the YAMAHA Disklavier PRO you could edit its 1023 layers. But since all that - Stahnke's LIVE PERFORMANCE LX system and Dr. Walker's ZENPH - was sold to STEINWAY & SONS, where it was a clever move to motivate non-players to buy their totally overpriced player-grands, called SPIRIO. Since then the retrofittable and affordable (!) LIVE PERFORMANCE LX and the RePerform-software disappeared from the market and it was not possible to edit the once recorded high-resolution XP data from the YAMAHA Disklavier ENSPIRE PRO anymore. Editing YAMAHA's XP data went on just with normal low MIDI-resolution. What a success for STEINWAY to send back YAMAHA to the stone-age! And without irony, because of STEINWAY's stroke of genius the YAMAHA ENSPIRE PRO-system has only a conditionally/restricted professional usability.
But to avoid misunderstandings, the ENSPIRE PRO-system as an evolution of the PRO-technology, which debuted in 1998, is a much more accurate system - in terms of precision and timing - in recording and playback than the CEUS-system ever was.
Finally, I really would like to see (and of course to buy) a "Special Edition/PLUS Volume" for the VSL YAMAHA CFX with about 100 layers, as I've asked for in my post. And in addition, later on it would be pretty logic for a viennese company to see a VSL BÖSENDORFER 280VC with about 100 layers too, cause it is a fantastic sounding concert grand. And as far as I know there is no 280VC sample library on the market.
Both could be reference-products for a long time - an industry standard. But now I hope that - as a first step - the "team" VSL YAMAHA CFX / VIENNA SYNCHRON PLAYER will be THE reference-product in the near future.
In the moment the Oscar goes to GARRITAN CFX. Sure that will change.
Here's a sneak peek video on Facebook. 😊
Look forward to hearing some more soon Stefan! I did come across the news on another forum about the upcoming piano, so will be looking forward to more news from vsl!
thank you for sharing the demo.
Steve 😊
Here's a sneak peek video on Facebook. 😊
Thanks Stefan, but can you put that video on Youtube or similar, without need to have an account please. Thank you.
Vienna Instruments/Vienna Ensemble 6.0.16999
• Added: Support for Synchron Pianos
Pianos. Plural!
It is very likely that there will be at least one more VSL grand piano sample library in the future beside the upcoming YAMAHA CFX. Please have a look to a post from VSL, which you can find right under their CFX teaser-clip on their facebook-site: https://www.facebook.com/viennasymphoniclibrary/
"Vienna Symphonic Library 
We like to give you as much choice as possible! Starting with the Yamaha - it is a beautiful instrument and we have seen quite a few piano players who were heavily impressed by the performance (both at Synchron Stage Vienna and in the Synchron Piano Player)."
I personally hope that VSL will sample the new full concert grand piano model from BÖSENDORFER, the 280VC, as this grand is now also available equipped with Enspire PRO like the YAMAHA CFX Enspire PRO, which they already own. And I hope, VSL will publish this second grand within the next year in 2019. I'm sure BÖSENDORFER would be very supportive.
Please have a look at my posts above about YAMAHA Disklavier PRO vs. BÖSENDORFER CEUS.
Their STEINWAY & SONS D-274 is not a reproducing piano and therefore not remotely accessible. Because of this, the recording sessions of this grand with a "human" pianist and editing process afterwards would be much more complicated and therefore much more time consuming. And in my opinion, a sampled STEINWAY D would be redundant to the YAMAHA CFX. If their CFX is a very fine exemplar, then there is no need to have the "same" VI for a second time. A BÖSENDORFER instead would be a really different sound to the YAMAHA.
To have a sample library of a STEINWAY & SONS D-274 satisfies only vanities on the basis of the brand name, in my opinion. Of course, vanities are probably the biggest motivations for buying a STEINWAY. But to make decisions on which grand piano to sample, factors such as abandonment of a pianist, remote controllability, and precisely programmable key stroke gives many advantages through the production. 100 velocity layers in a grand piano sample library - VSL VIENNA IMPERIAL - are not possible with a "human" pianist.
To have a sample library of a STEINWAY & SONS D-274 satisfies only vanities on the basis of the brand name, in my opinion. Of course, vanities are probably the biggest motivations for buying a STEINWAY.
I laughed out loud when I read this hahaha
Stephen, could you explain your point of view in more detail so that we all benefit from your experience. Laughter in this sense is often a bit awkward and not exactly competent.
Hi LAJ, thank you for linking that really interesting video about the decision-finding for purchasing that certain grand piano. BTW, do you know, if the shown YAMAHA CFX is that very instrument, which was used for the GARRITAN CFX?
Pity that STUART & SONS are not so well known outside of Australia. Their 290 full concert grand sounds unbelievable, like from another world. But... not a reproducing piano and therefore not remotely accessible.
Although, there could be a serious (!) possibility to "fix" this problem for ALL acoustic grands! With this solution it could be possible to "install" a remote controllability and have a precisely programmable key stroke literally in a minute, of course without a pianist: The system-technology operates on the "Live Performance LX" reproducing system from Wayne Stahnke, which is now used in the STEINWAY SPIRIO. It's called "ARPEGGIO" the "Piano SuperDroid", the worlds first "Piano Playing Robot" from "Majestic Piano Works". It's inventor is Nick Morris: http://pianosoftware.com/arpeggio-the-piano-superdroid/
Wayne Stahnke was THE mastermind of YAMAHA's Disklavier PRO technology with it's 1024 velocity levels. From 1991 to 2001 he worked for YAMAHA as a member of the Disklavier PRO design team. The ARPEGGIO system also plays with 1024 velocity levels. And it is able to playback MIDI-files with its 127 velocity levels - enough for a serious sampling-project. One should really speak with Mr. Morris about the technical specs and possibilities of his ARPEGGIO. Don't know, if he's selling an exemplar. If not, it should be at least possible to rent an ARPEGGIO for a few months for producing sample libraries from VSLs own STEINWAY D and from a rental BÖSENDORFER 280VC without (!) Disklavier Enspire PRO, if a purchase is not planned. Then VSL could choose between different "pure analogue" 280VC grands and take the "best one" for the sampling project. Cause I'm afraid that BÖSENDORFER as manufacturer will only build/equip just one 280VC with Enspire PRO if they get an purchase-order from a customer. That means "eat or die" and you have no choice to choose between let's say at least three new 280VC. In Hamburg you can choose between ten STEINWAY D, if you want. And they are all very different, (which is on the other hand a significant part of their own very great problem!)
Why not flying in a STUART & SONS 290 from Australia to the Synchron Stage in Vienna, together with Mr. Wayne Stuart, who is a genious inventor and a fabulous piano builder...? It could be THE ultimate sample library and the only one of a STUART & SONS grand!
LAJ, in your post you've written [...] "or they have some kind of C3PO ... sitting there all night long...". That reminded me of this ARPEGGIO, which is probably more a R2D2 :-)
Why it is placed at right ??
I could be wrong, but I believed that it was usually always at left :
Side note : I would have prefered you complete the previous Synchron instruments with the Synchron Player before releasing a new one... I think you underestimate our frustration.
