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  4. SE vs. Standard vs. Full, again

  • SE vs. Standard vs. Full, again

    PaoloTP
    PaoloTP

    Hi,

    I know this is an often debated issue, but I would like to see if it can be updated today.

    We all know there is a hierarchy in how rich each VSL library version is:

    - Special Edition contains the bare basic materials.

    - Special Edition PLUS contains the essentials for realism, including portato and repetitions. It's a compact, full orchestra lacking very little.

    - Standard Libraries contain some more articulations, including a minimum of Vib/n.v. variations, pfp, flutterzunge, fast legato.

    - Full Libraries contain the above, plus more Vib/n.v. nuances, sforzatissimo, recorded crescendo/decrescendo, trills, acciaccatura, mordents, runs, arpeggios, and sometimes mutes and special effects.

    Using the Full Libraries means being ready to face even different styles with ease, for example Baroque music with its particular mordents and trills. At the same time, the Standard Libraries may have more than listed, thanks to VI PRO:

    - pfp can be doubled as recorded crescendo/decrescendo materials, by only playing half of them. Time Stretching can give more lengths.

    - Repetitions can be multiplied in diffent speeds, thanks to Time Stretching.

    - Arpeggios and runs can be simulated with the APP sequencer of VI PRO. It's not as the real thing, but it is not bad (some other libraries exclusively rely on this technique).

    It's not strange that the most recent libraries include less articulations than the oldest, since so much can be simulated by the powerful pro player.

    So, unless you really need the more advanced articulations of the Full Libraries, maybe the Standard Libraries are already a lot. More than in the pre VI PRO era.

    Paolo
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP

    Obviously, I was forgetting the diffent number of velocity layers and round robins in some libraries. This may be important for many.

    Paolo
  • G
    G
    https://forum.vsl.co.at/topic/48292/Upgrading From Special Editions To Collections And Bundles/269249
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP

    Hi Gil, I was comparing the single patches of some Standard and Full instruments. The Standard ones have sometimes less velocity layers, round robins and samples than the Full equivalents. This is not always the same, and varies according to the instruments.

    So, it seems that sometimes the Standard instruments are just the same as the Full, minus the advanced articulations. Some others, they are a cross between the Special Edition PLUS and the Full, with more than the latter and less than the former.

    An example is the Trumpet (C), where the Staccato articulation haa, for example, 3 velocity layers and 2 round robins in the Standard version, and 5 velocity layers and 4 round robins in the Full version. I've compared several instrments during the past months, and I've seen this happening in various instruments.

    Paolo
  • G
    G

    Hello Paolo,

    Thanks for these usefull precisions about different number of velocity layers bewteen Standard and Full libraries!

    I wish everyone can have access to all the manuals to be able to check information inside before buying...

    Regards,

    Gil.
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP

    A small, insignificant comparison between Brass SE and Full (two Tenor Trombones, a Bass Trombone and a Bass Tuba). The files are MP3, but at the highest quality.

    What I can hear is that Full has a slightly fuller sound than SE, and a perceivably smoother transition between dynamic levels. SE is incredible, and not only for the price. The difference of Full compared to SE is however enough for maniacs like me to want to spend more for that fullness and smoothness.

    Paolo
  • J
    J

    Unless I missed it somewhere I think you are forgetting the most significant difference which is the SE collections are sampled at whole tone while the big libraries (standard and full) are sampled at half tone.  I explained this to somebody else in another thread recently saying that the sampling difference is like the difference between a 6 megapixel image and a 12 megapixel one.  The standard and full libraries have more detail in each sample.

    If I were contemplating buying any of the SE collections the VI Pro would be a must as a companion to the libraries.  Of course VI Pro is not included with any library SE or the larger collections it must be purchased seperately.  But with VI Pro you can use the humanize and time stretch feature to create your own round robbins and other things the larger collections have which makes the SE much more powerful. 
  • PaoloTP
    PaoloTP
    last edited
    last edited

    @jasensmith said:

    Unless I missed it somewhere I think you are forgetting the most significant difference which is the SE collections are sampled at whole tone while the big libraries (standard and full) are sampled at half tone.  I explained this to somebody else in another thread recently saying that the sampling difference is like the difference between a 6 megapixel image and a 12 megapixel one.  The standard and full libraries have more detail in each sample.

    I'm not sure the photo low resolution analogy completely fits the whole-tone sampling issue. I would say that interpolated whole-tone sampling is like a lower resolution image, upscaled to the higher resolution. The result will not be as good as the real high-resolution image, but tries to be similar. You will see a slightly blurred image, but at (simulated) high-resolution.

    Whole-tone sampling can still sound good, as shown by the Appassionata Strings. Semitone sampling would always be better, being the real thing vs. the simulated (interpolated) one.

    Paolo
  • Dewdman42D
    Dewdman42D

    Thanks for this thread.  For me its a no brainer to get the normal libraries instead of SE, but I have so far started out with STD and still trying to decide whether I will need or want FULL extensions.  Its really a lot more money, so it may never happen.  Same with Appasionata which I also now have in STD.

    I want to produce a lot of music with what I have before I consider the approximate $2500 it would take to upgrade everything to full.  A lot of the articulations that have been mentioned are just not something I would ever use use.  Runs, etc..  So on that surface it seems to be th at FULL has a lot of stuff I don't need.  However when I hear people talking about  more velocity layers, and other stuff I may need, like MUTES, etc..  well...I may end up having to get it all afterall.  But I'm going to run with what I have for quite a while first.  I'm new to VSL so, its a learning process..

    I would be very curious to hear more specifically how people are using VIPro or other tricks to get around deficiences in the STD lib compared to FULL.
  • J
    J
    last edited
    last edited

    @Dewdman42 said:

    Thanks for this thread.  For me its a no brainer to get the normal libraries instead of SE, but I have so far started out with STD and still trying to decide whether I will need or want FULL extensions.  Its really a lot more money, so it may never happen.  Same with Appasionata which I also now have in STD.

    I want to produce a lot of music with what I have before I consider the approximate $2500 it would take to upgrade everything to full.  A lot of the articulations that have been mentioned are just not something I would ever use use.  Runs, etc..  So on that surface it seems to be th at FULL has a lot of stuff I don't need.  However when I hear people talking about  more velocity layers, and other stuff I may need, like MUTES, etc..  well...I may end up having to get it all afterall.  But I'm going to run with what I have for quite a while first.  I'm new to VSL so, its a learning process..

    I would be very curious to hear more specifically how people are using VIPro or other tricks to get around deficiences in the STD lib compared to FULL.

    I bought the first SE collection VSL came out with and, if I had to do it all over again, I would have skipped the SE and just concentrated all of my resources into getting the best say, string library(s) I could afford.  Although the current SE collections are a lot better now and offer much more choice than before you're still quite limited with what you can do with them.

    As for the VI Pro, one thing you could do is use the time stretch function to turn short deteches into longer ones and vice versa.  You could do the same thing with stacs, Spiccatos and portatos.  Also you could use other features like Time Offset to create more variety with certain repeating and legato samples.  If you haven't already, watch the tutorial videos on the VI Pro.  They might give you some ideas.  Then try it with a free demo license.
  • Dewdman42D
    Dewdman42D

    well I actually already bought VIPro when I bought Cube.  I'm just getting into it.  Just trying to understand better what people are doing with it which might overcome limitations of STD vs FULL Cube
  • Z
    Z

    Though my response is some 3 years late to the party, I applaud this thread for being helpful with incite into the VSL product tiers. Indeed the special editions are limited in comparison to the FULL VI libraries or latest Synchron libraries. But having lived through the entire synth hardware era, I see the VI SEs as impressive compared to the best of the now legacy sample playback hardware. After all, each individual sample, with or without round robins etc., is the same pristine sample found in the FULL libraries.

    When the Special Editions, as with all sample libs are given a role where they musically do the things they do well, they contribute much the same as their FULL counterparts. Swells, trills, flutters, and repetitions or fast legatos may not be required of them in a background or supporting role. SEs also work in solo/lead roles when the strengths of the instrument are used to an advantage. Starting with SEs vs STD, FULL, or Synchron libraries of course depends on what the library is to be used for, and where the user is at in their musical journey. A future cross-grade from SEs upward is always an option.