@JimmyHellfire said:

@dterry, I really don't think that the point of a multi-mic library is to not use them. I could also save system ressources by not using half of the articulations. Or using Violins 1 only. You get the point.

Generally, with multi-mic libraries, I don't think that using a single mic position is good or desirable most of the time. Not with Spitfire, not with Orchestral Tools, Cinematic Studio series OR Synchron.

No, the articulations single-sections analogy isn't valid here - two very different tradeoffs. 

Of course the point of multi-mic is to provide options, but it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't use a single mic if needed, or if multiple mics simply are not necessary.   I'm not sure what you are suggesting VSL give up to allow you to run all articulations and mics.  Velocity layers make a noticeable difference when using velocity crossfade via cc fader.  How much RAM are you trying to fit this into?

I would think anyone buying libraries with these options would be well aware of the need to configure systems, and mixing options, to make use of them, or be willing to compromise.  Surely users don't think they can run a full Synchron orchestra template on a 32G, or even 64G PC with all mic options.  I wouldn't consider building a new system with less than 128G at this point, even before Synchron. 

Fwiw, OT's Berlin strings work fine with a single mic, if you use the right one, or have the score mixed by a score mixer (done that before).  What sounds good "out of the box" doesn't necessarily work as well in a mix, especially with other libraries in a complex score, at least when these are not just for mockup reference. 

To bring something positive back to this thread - Synchron is a new standard, at the very least for the surround/Atmos options. Every library requires some work and skill to get convincing results, if you write for the music instead of the samples.  There isn't much VSL, EW, OT, Spitfire or anyone else can do to change that. 

Sovereign:

I wasn't saying I only used those only! Are you kidding? I have been using all the current string libraries including all of VSL - I meant that I started with those and have used everything since. I thought that was obvious.

Jimmy Hellfire and all you experts: what music do you actually do? I haven't heard anything but a lot of talk. I want to hear the music you actually do, not just a lot of blabbering.

Here is an all Synchron mix of a piece I previously did for Production Music Online. Violins and Cellos are lyrical vibrato legato, violas and basses long sustain.

No Greater Love

William Kersten

www.williamkersten.com

Hi William,

I went to the "No greater Love" link and had a listen. A very lovely and nice piece of music. Sounds very expressive.

thanks for sharing ⭐

Steve😃

Hi Steve

Thanks, nice to hear from you!  I am really excited by the sound of the Synchron strings.  Each VSL library has a different sound, for different expressions.  This one is the most complex and probably along with Appassionata out of the box the most perfect.  Though Synchron beats even Appassionata because THERE IS NO MIXING!  

I did nothing but play the tracks in MIDI on this.  That is incredible.  Of course I could tweak it if desired but that is what is amazing about the library.  Just load and play.  On this piece there is only one articulation for each instrument.  Though of course it is a simple piece.  But espressivo legato is what I first try to judge about a library's sound and the Synchron is so beautiful and characteristic of each instrument. 

Hi William,

no problem - I listened to the music, and then the YouTube video followed with some more lovely work from you.

I'm glad you are enjoying the library. Yes, the VSL Libraries are all different.  I really did enjoy watching Paul in his videos showing the very soft articulations.

Have you also heard what Beat Kauffman has done with the short articulations from Synchron with the new partita version? He has achieved a very energetic sound - very realistic - I do love the shorts of this library. Amazing sound. It's great that there is energy in the short samples.

 All the best with creating music with this library. You've done very well with what I've heard in the YouTube video. I wish I could get my demo's to sound as good as that!

best,

Steve😃

Thanks Steve, I agree Beat's demo is great. Also I am eagerly auditioning those new variants like the soft articulations.  It is interesting how you can use the soft attack legato for example with a higher velocity than the normal legato to create an espressivo attack and then resume the lower velocity legato.  I did that on a number of the lines in this piece.  There are lots of variations in the new sounds that are very exciting to try out.  

Best,

William

Hi again William,

Glad you liked Beat's demo. I thought the sound was amazing that Beat achieved with this. I have to hand it to Beat, he really knows how to use articulations so well. I thought he really showed what you can do with the shorts in his demo. Amazing sound!

Also, as you mentioned about the different legato attacks -having that as a variation of the legato gives more choice of the attack of the notes. I'm sure that we'll be able also to hear this when Paul does his video on legato.

Steve😊

Hi William,

Absolutely beautifu! I loved your No Greater Love piece. The strings indeed do sound top notch quality and expressive... Now, I have to decide what I'm gonna get... Upgrade to full Apassionata Strings library or get the Synchron Strings. Now, I really have to think!

Regards,
Richard

@dterry said:

I'm not sure what you are suggesting VSL give up to allow you to run all articulations and mics. 

Nothing. As I said, my main problem isn't that the library is ressource demanding. It just becomes the problem when the library ends up being capable of less than libraries that are half, or quarter the size (either because articulations aren't there, or don't work properly). Then the excessive requirements add to the absurdity of the situation. That's the point that I was trying to make.

Thanks Richard!  I read your post about Appassionata and agreed on them being such a good overall string sound.  Definitely having the entire library is important.  All the different strings of VSL have their various strengths - for example Orchestral Strings have the most varied articulations, Chamber a more intimate sound, Dimension amazing individually controllable textures, Solo strings the best solo timbres,  and now Synchron with instant playability and imaging in a great recording venue.  So it is indeed difficult to choose.  I have been using them all in different compositions depending on the mood of the piece. 

For example I am working on a film score that is a small-scale psychological drama inspired by the Val Lewton RKO low budget mystery horror films of the 40s.  On that I decided to use Dimension with no doublings with some solo strings because it is a sound more like that intimate group of players, rather than a huge epic sound like Appassionata. 

Though on a recording for a production library that was supposed to be "epic" the Appassionata were essential. The variety of the VSL strings has become a great asset and is certainly the result of the nearly infinite expressiveness of the strings.

Hi William,

That is exactly why I do love the Appassionata strings, the big lush shound. I'm just wondering if it is possible if you could create a short dmeonstration of the dynmaic patches in the Appassionata Strings so that I can hear what they sound like. They never did show those in the videos. I have an idea what they may sound like because I have a few libraries that have them, but it would still be nice hear what they sound like.

Regards,
Richard

I can't do a demo for Appassionata right now but I would say that the cres/dim dynamics are not needed absolutely, because you can use crossfade.  However - I find that the sforzando is essential.  That is something that crossfade just doesn't do well enough. 

Also, I don't know what is in Special Edition as I only have the Full library, but I wonder if it has all the legato variations - perf legato slur, perf legato 4 velocity, pef leg progressive, perf-leg Vib stong, perf-leg Sfz, perf-leg tune, perf-leg tune-li, perf-leg sul G, perf leg portamento.

Those are a really great variety of important articulations to have.  Especailly the 4 velocity and sforzando. 

@William said:

Here is an all Synchron mix of a piece I previously did for Production Music Online.  Violins and Cellos are lyrical vibrato legato, violas and basses long sustain.  No Greater LoveWilliam Kersten

@William said:

Sovereign:

I wasn't saying I only used those only! Are you kidding?  I have been using all the current string libraries including all of VSL - I meant that I started with those and have used everything since.  I thought that was obvious.

Jimmy Hellfire and all you experts:   what music do you actually do?  I haven't heard anything but a lot of talk.  I want to hear the music you actually do, not just a lot of blabbering. 

Here is an all Synchron mix of a piece I previously did for Production Music Online.  Violins and Cellos are lyrical vibrato legato, violas and basses long sustain.  

No Greater Love

William Kersten

www.williamkersten.com 

Dear William,

I totally agree with your point about supporting opinions with samples and real music, but this is exactly why I write now that your sample, even if it's a nice and well produced composition, it's not supporting at all your statement in my very humble opinion (not more realistic or more expressive than other professional libraries demos at all, I'm afraid). I don't think it's requested sarcasm or offensive "muppets" joke to argue on very detailed and serious observations adn criticism, that unfortunately for me, with the very same experience you had with libraries (started long long long time ago...) I totally quote.

Personally I was very disappointed as well, and personally again I really hope VSL will refine the product: it's pretty obvious listening to strange noises and loop little issues some notes have, that editing was long, hard and under pressure, and it sounds really like a "beta release".  I really loved the project concept, in the hope that VSL outstanding software and sonic experience will provide us with something great: I consider VSL software simply the top of the market, almost undisputable, then I've great expectation for the new player.

Anyway the actual release can't be claimed better than professional competition in my opinion, as several other people are thinking: it's difficult all of us are wrong, despite personal taste, because technical details and faults are simply objective. For the rest let's wait the next steps in development: everybody recognized something good and useful already... crossing fingers final release will be worth of the effort and VSL quality expectations.

Good luck to VSL and to all of us already paying for it.

all the best and keep doing good music, Fabio.

@William said:

Sovereign:

I wasn't saying I only used those only! Are you kidding?  I have been using all the current string libraries including all of VSL - I meant that I started with those and have used everything since.  I thought that was obvious.

Jimmy Hellfire and all you experts:   what music do you actually do?  I haven't heard anything but a lot of talk.  I want to hear the music you actually do, not just a lot of blabbering. 

Here is an all Synchron mix of a piece I previously did for Production Music Online.  Violins and Cellos are lyrical vibrato legato, violas and basses long sustain.  

No Greater Love

William Kersten

www.williamkersten.com 

Dear William,

I totally agree with your point about supporting opinions with samples and real music, but this is exactly why I write now that your sample, even if it's a nice and well produced composition, it's not supporting at all your statement in my very humble opinion (not more realistic or more expressive than other professional libraries demos at all, I'm afraid). I don't think it's requested sarcasm or offensive "muppets" joke to argue on very detailed and serious observations adn criticism, that unfortunately for me, with the very same experience you had with libraries (started long long long time ago...) I totally quote.

Personally I was very disappointed as well, and personally again I really hope VSL will refine the product: it's pretty obvious listening to strange noises and loop little issues some notes have, that editing was long, hard and under pressure, and it sounds really like a "beta release".  I really loved the project concept, in the hope that VSL outstanding software and sonic experience will provide us with something great: I consider VSL software simply the top of the market, almost undisputable, then I've great expectation for the new player.

Anyway the actual release can't be claimed better than professional competition in my opinion, as several other people are thinking: it's difficult all of us are wrong, despite personal taste, because technical details and faults are simply objective. For the rest let's wait the next steps in development: everybody recognized something good and useful already... crossing fingers final release will be worth of the effort and VSL quality expectations.

Good luck to VSL and to all of us already paying for it.

all the best and keep doing good music, Fabio.

Well said. As it stands, the legato is not good enough. There is a lot to like about the library (the quiet velocities, the shorts etc) but unless they can fix the legato, it isnt going to be up there with the very best.

Personally, i think there is just too much attack on the note after the transition which is giving it that unnatural and midi like quality.

I did a second mix using normal attack violins -

No Greater Love

deleted... wrong remarks, Synchron takes time to explore ;-)

@javajam said:

 

Following I don't understand the layering restriction to 5 of 8 when using velocity crossfade. As some said around here, the sound is moving, changing along the note. We can't do it with played velocity, we have to go to Xfades tools like the velocity one (I use filter too for brass i.e.). That's the only single way to have it sounding almost real and live.

Very good point that. THere is no way to get a lyrical line sounding realistic without velocty x fade so it is hugely dissapointing to lose a few layers when enabling it.

I can't really fathom why they woould need to do this either..

It's a matter of phases problem when you have to crossfade between different samples...

@William said:

I did a second mix using normal attack violins -

No Greater Love

Hi William,

in my very personal taste the previous one was better: the intro was amazing and emotional, now it sounds to me a bit forced. But the part I really found and still find weak (and it's coming from the library, not from your music) is round 1:00 to 1:30, when the bass line (cellos and later Bass) is so static... being a conductor I would really shout to cellos "com'on... WTF sing this part!... put a bit of heart in the line..."

I suppose the only way of fixing it is quite a bit of editing, and a different patch for the long note (perhaps Xfade?).

Of course it's just my very personal and humble opinion, ciao F.