If someone from VSL Can respond ASAP I'd appreciate it. (Seems to be happening more frequently and I also have several projects going on at the moment, so all of this double checking is wasting a lot of time.)

When I first began my career, VEP was amazing because the  hardware approach was cost prohibitive. But now, 1/2 of my fee for 60 seconds of music would more than cover MADI and MIDI hardware. So I'm really thinking I might switch to that. I've given up offline bouncing anyway in favor of recording directly from Logic and into another DAW with instant stems.

Hello Composer 14464, 

This does not happen on any of our systems, so we'll have to find a way to reproduce the problem... Any pointers to specific templates? Another question is: Did you try with a different switch?

Best, 
Paul

Hi Paul,

I ordered another switch this morning so I'll give it a try. 

Could it be that I have too many instances? In my setup, I use the stereo version of VEP 6. I use the stereo plugin because (and correct me if I'm wrong or if something has changed) the multi-output plugin requres forcing live mode with a disable I/O plugin which I've found to be much more taxing on my main computer's CPU. Not to mention that you lose the ability to control the volume of each instrument from the logic channel strip, and you have to do your effects processing in the logic pro mixer on the aux return channels of the multi-output instrument. 

So, with my current setup, Spitfire 1st violins is loaded in one VEP instance, 2nd violins in another, Violas in another, and so on. So, I end up with probably 150 instances per computer for my whole template. Is that simply too much for the server mode to handle?

Also, I should say that when I said I was thinking about switching to MIDI and MADI, I didn't mean that I was thinking about giving up VEP 6...just the server function. VEP 6 is a great plugin host for sure. 

Hi, 

You should make use of the multi-timbral channels in Kontakt and reduce the instances as much as you can. But that shouldn't have anything to do with connectivity. 

Best, 
Paul 

Hi again Paul,

But with multi-timbral channels I have always take a big hit in CPU performance. Unless I'm doing something wrong...

When I was using the multi-timbral version of the plugin, I put a disabled I/O pluin on the track in logic pro, and then another disabled I/O plugin on each aux return in the logic mixer. Is that the correct method? 

Hi, 

You don't need an I/O plug-in on the returns... How many returns do you have for each VE PRO?

In any case, these are 2 different topics: 

1) network connectivity

2) instance performance

Best, 
Paul

We are still limited to 16 returns in Logic correct? Unless AU V3 has finally changed that. 

So, at most 16 returns. I haven't tried a multi-timbral template in years. 

The 2 issues are somewhat related, because if some instances failed to connect, it would be much less of a pain if I was only dealing with maybe 30 instances total instead of 450. 

The big issue for me with the multi-timbral plugin in logic is that you can't mix on the same track that your midi goes on. You have to add all of your mix plugins to the AUX returns and do any automation of those plugins by adding the AUX to your logic arragement, doubling your track count if you add each AUX return. I understand that this is a more natural in other DAWs, but in Logic it isn't a very natural feeling workflow (for me anyway).

Most composers that I know who use Logic and VEP 6 are not using the Multi-Timbral plugin version (And these are primetime players). They all use the Stereo plugin and have one VST/AU instrument per VEP 6 instance/window (window is probably a better term to use since VEP 6 came out). 

One stereo signal comes back from each VEP 6 window and is mixed directly in the instrument channel strip (no auxes). No disabled I/O plugins are used at all because they are not needed. Everything times out perfectly. 

It is a REALLY great method as long as everything connects....when instances don't connect for whatever reason, it is a big problem. Hopefully the other gigabit swtich I ordered will make the difference.

This is my current swtich:

https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-GS105NA-Ethernet-Replacement-Unmanaged/dp/B0000BVYT3

Hi, 

I also have high hopes for AUv3, and am really looking forward to it!

Let's see what that new switch does and then see how we can get to that. 450 instances are a lot to manage, no doubt. 

Best, 
Paul

I would have high hopes for it as well, but only if Apple changed the multi-timbral/multi-output plugin (I'd be supprised if they changed it because I really think this is only something that pertains to composers and not music producers). 

Basically multi-timbral mode would have to work like this: If you set up a multi-timbral instrument and add tracks for all 16 midi channels, you'd then have the option of selecting which audio signal comes back to each track. So, the multi-timbral tracks would not be able to be dummy midi tracks; they each would have to be able to process discrete audio signals. 

Then, each multi-timbral track's volume and pan would have to control the volume and pan of the audio signal being returned (currently it controls only channel 1, unless you bypass this is in the preferences, but then you can't control mono-timbral instrument volume or audio channel strip volume in the normal way)

Most people I know who use logic like to have midi and the relevent audio all packaged into one track in the Logic arragement page. (Logic is now mostly intended to be used with mono-timbral, stereo instrument tracks...multi-timbral tracks are a relic from a time when CPUs were not powerful enough according to one Logic developer, so I don't think we should expect any changes there) 

Ok the new switch did not help....

So, I guess I'll provide a little more information so hopefully someone can help me get to the bottom of this issue.

I notice that when I load a project, it seems that Logic is getting hung up on "Vienna Ensemble Pro" a couple of times...like it is trying to connect to the instance but then it can't find it so it skips over it and goes on to the next one.

Is it possible that that is what is happening here?

Occasionally, when I try to manually connect in the plugin window, I'll get a message saying something about Vienna Ensemble Pro cannot connect to such and such instance and it usually also gives me the IP address I believe. 

On another note, I'm going to go ahead and try MADI. Is this a good interface?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=CjwKCAiA9rjRBRAeEiwA2SV4ZRyTEkRbKEoZ6FPfYXKzaqLeM2mQ4hZwY2rHfLB5-P8wu0LyyuL3mhoCS6QQAvD_BwE&is=REG&m=Y&sku=1005522

I have zero experience with MADI, so any help would be much appreciated.

Also, I bought Midi Over Lan a while ago, so I think I should be able to use that for what I'm trying. Will I need something for syncing? Like a clocking device? What would you recommend? Is that what the Apogee Big Ben is used for?

Ok, it did it again. I loaded up a project.

My Spitfire 1st Violins failed to connect to the Mac Pro server (among other several other instances which also failed to connect). I opened the plugin to manually connect and get this error message:

Could not connect to "192.168.2.2 Nathans-Mac-Pro-2 [64] (1st Violins)".

 

Tried again and Got the same error message. Tried a 3rd time and it connected....This must be what is happening when the projects are loading. They are trying to connect but failing and then moving on to the next track. 

 

So, what could be the root of the problem? 

On another note, I used to connect directly from computer to computer, and I never had this issue. It only started when I added a 3rd computer and got a switch...

Anyway, have you at VSL every considered offering a tech support/network trouble shooting service? For a fee of course, but I'm sure many people would be interested. Looking through the forum, it does seems like a lot of users end up having trouble with the networking.....they are composers after all, not computer experts. VisionDaw offers a remote support, but for me, I'll will only use macs and never touch PCs, so there is no obvious place to get support for this kind of issue...except for maybe directly from you guys. It would be great to have remote support for a yearly fee or something like that....just a thought.

Hi, 

We're looking into your specific problem, but need to find a way to reproduce it. 
Can you please send your template to support@vsl.co.at?

Regarding network support: Always tricky to do that via remote. We are happy to help with the basics, but a working network is actually one of the system requirements for Vienna Ensemble PRO. 

Networks can become very complex quite fast, and many people work with a setup that somebody else has set up for them (so they don't know too much about hardware or specific settings that may have been added).

So I'm afraid we'll have to pass on such a service and leave that field to network specialists. 

Best,
Paul

I had 2 network specialists come to my studio and they both said that the networking is fine and that the issue must be with the software. 

I'll send my template.

Hi,

Have you by any chance installed any 2cAudio plug-ins, any network utilities like Little Snitch or any parental control applications on your Master computer, as these are known to possibly interfere with VE Pro connectivity?

And, when sending your template, would you please include screenshots of the network settings on all three computers?

Best, Marnix

Hi. I’m writing from my iPhone on the train so please forgive any typos. Just an update and hopefully this will help anyone else who may run into this problem. So, I discovered that the problem went away after I did a full restart of my system. I don’t usually do any restarts for my system because my 2013 Mac Pro slaves each have 128gb of owc ram. On one I have mostly Kontakt and that loads relatives quickly. The other has play and it can take well over a half hour to load. I’ll probably start doing periodic shutdowns and reboots of the slaves. In my busy season I usually just leave them on because I’m in the studio up to 18 hours per day.

Also to answer your question Marnix, I have not installed any of those plugin or put any type of parental controls on the master