For the other readers .. Just to avoid misunderstandings. What I called "bad answer" refers only to Pauls info, that SS-Percussion 1 is not supposed to be used in MIR. That's all ;)
He did not give me "names" :)
-
It's not supposed too, but you can quite successfully do that. Synchrom close mics sound beautiful and pretty dry, so you could try to use them inside Mir. Otherwise it means any other library but Vsl ones could be used in Mir, because I can't recall many other library recorded in anechoic rooms.
-
For the other readers .. Just to avoid misunderstandings. What I called "bad answer" refers only to Pauls info, that SS-Percussion 1 is not supposed to be used in MIR. That's all 😉 He did not give me "names" :)
I see. 😊
You're right: Technically you could use the close-mics of Synchron instruments with MIR. The results will be just fine, but you have to be aware of several important differences compared to VSL's Silent Stage recordings. The distinctive reverb tail is one of them. But most of all: These are close mics which were recorded as part of a "bigger picture", so to speak. These mics on their own won't (and aren't meant to) represent an instrument as comprehensively as we are used to by samples recorded at Silent Stage*). Close mics provide means to add definition and "grip" to potentially overwhelming spatial audio information.
... it goes without saying that it doesn't make much sense to send the Decca-tree or surround tracks of Synchron Percussion into MIR, of course.
*) Sidenote: Contrary to common belief and urban legends, VSL never recorded "close" or in an anechoic environment, just "without reverb". ;-)
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
Thanks for the great conversation here... Paul, Lars, Dietz, Fabio, et al. It's remarkable that we can have this conversation with the actual product managers themselves. I have watched the demo videos, and am really impressed with the improvements to Tympani. The new set handles releases so much better and looks easier to use. It sounds great! I also love the sound of the new bass drum. Regarding the room space, I may be fortunate in that Teldex is my "go to" MIR room, and Syncron stage looks to be a similar style room. So, mixing the old and new might work okay. (And when a Syncron Stage MIR Pack is available, it would obviously match even better). On the other hand, if I want to use a larger space like Sage Gateshead, it sounds like there isn't an ideal soulution, but two workarounds. 1) use the close mic alone from syncron stage and run it through MIR to place it in the room, or 2) run the syncron recording through a traditional reverb to add a longer tail, fiddling until it sounds good. I am still trying to envision how to make this as intuitive as possible, because I really liked the flexibility of the silent stage recordings, to position instrumentalists where you want them, whether using MIR or not. I wonder how easy that will be with Syncron stage.
-
[...]
2) run the syncron recording through a traditional reverb to add a longer tail, fiddling until it sounds good.
[...]
This.
That's how it is done with actual recordings from sound stages anyway (be it Synchron Stage or others).
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
Hi All!
Great that VSL is taking on the other "big boys" of non dry orchestral sampling and that they entered this field with a "Paukenschlag"! (Pun intended)
Maybe a solution to havin a MIR like workflow would be a Synchron MIR Venue that would allow to place signals on the Stage without the Reverb being added (like for example Virtual Sound Stage does it). This would make the "Panning" of Instruments much easier and should be quite workable for the close mics with "reverb" being added by the room mics.
Whatever the solution will be, I'm shure VSL will nail it as always!
Keep up the good work and hopefully we will see another Synchron Library soon!
-
Time Stretching & 1 Future-wish for Dietz ... What I always love to do with Glissandi, Runs, Dynamics ... is timestretching in VI Pro. It makes all Sounds exactly fitting to the Tempo you imagine in a Situation. As there are Glissandi in this new library too I wanted to ask, ... Does "stretching the Time of Samples" work / sound good with this new concept? I have no headaches with the Close Signal but I'm not sure If this works properly with the Roomsignals?? In the Setup-Video I see the Time Stretching Option available in VI Pro. So, you did not take it out ... what at least could mean that it does sound well. Yesterday I watched a Youtube Video of Spitfire Symphonic Strings and when it came to their Time Stretching solution the Moderator said "it does not sound bad, but unnatural" if you stretch the Decca-Sounds too short. (Dietz, die Mitbewerber wecken teilweise interessante VSL-Wünsche. Die offerieren den Usern künstliches ConSordino und Ponticello. Dass du das - als Meister der Mixkunst - auch kannst, hört man in den MIR preEQ-Optionen. Z.B. Klingt "Silk" ähnlich wie ConSord ... das es dass nicht ist, weiß man nur, wenn man die Samples hat. Deshalb wünsche ich mir in einem MIR Update "künstliches Ponticello" made by Dietz für die Dimension Strings 1 und die Appassionatas 1 als PreEQ-Option) Greetings Lars
-
"- Disable Cells Feature in VI: You can now load samples of a cell only when it is receiving MIDI, and load presets with disabled cells, enabling them on demand."
Between the Disabled Cell feature and the Reset, Learn and Optimizie feature even the large Synchron libs will be very managable. I have a very large mixed VSL/Kontakt template that loads up with zero RAM footprint. Samples get loaded into RAM as they recive MIDI input (for both VI Pro and Kontakt). During or after I'm finished composing, before I print to stems I optimize everything. RAM footprint is reduced to such a low level, even computers with only 16GBs of RAM would be able to deal with playback, no problem.
(Not trying to self-promote) My Youtube channel has some VEP optimization videos, but I should make one for Synchron and VI Pro/VEP. Just ask if you want me to post a link (I don't want to step on any toes here).
Synchron!! Hallelujah!! I'm so glad VSL has taken this route.
Steve Steele
Regards, Steve Steele https://www.stevesteele.com -
While I fully understand and sympathize with the decision by VSL to embrace the "wet" samples market, I am also a bit sad to see this happen. Obviously no company has unlimited resources of monetary or human captial. As a result every "wet" product means one less "dry" product that could have been created.
I own many VSL products. In fact almost all of them. I love the quality, the consistency, and the flexibility of VSL products. The Vienna Instruments Pro player is the best sample player, period. Because of the highly efficient VSL dry samples and Vienna Instruments Pro I can easily have a large symphony orchestra of very high quality samples loaded on my 48GB I7 computer. No slave computer needed. So I really appreciate the "dry" sample technoloby.
I had hopes that VSL would begin to improve on some silent stage products with more velocity layers and perhaps an even wider range of instruments. Personally I would really love to have a true Eb Alto/Tenor horn, a true Baritone horn, and Cornet ensemble, as well as other products related to Brass Band and Symphonic Band.
Still, I understand the logic behind the decision to go "wet" and I hope that it will be a tremendous economic success for VSL. If the "wet" products boost cash flow, perhaps VSL can also occassionally do an improved version of an existing silent stage product or a completely new release.
-
Hello,
Let me present my profile, which is not at all unique, I imagine.
I’m a young film composer, using mainly orchestra, and I’m not an audio engineer (I had to learn all the audio mixing by myself, and I still learn each day&hellip😉, so I need software/samples which facilitate my life, as intuitive and simple as possible, ideally with good presets. This is the case with Vienna Instruments, Vienna Suite and MIR. MIR is not perfect for someone like me, since I still have to set volumes (natural volumes are a start, but not all instruments have it specially in percussions, and some are not coherent, at least at my ears), and to apply some effects to try to reach a satisfying sound, the most I’m able to have. So, not perfect (nothing is&hellip😉, but a very BIG help, without which I couldn’t achieve many projects.
Since many years, I buy new Vienna instruments, one by one, sometimes bundle by bundle when I can. Lots of money, but I consider this like a sort of investment (yes I know, investments don’t exist in software).
Today, a new concept arrives in Vienna, and seems the new era /philosophy of VSL. Excellent sound, nice promises (a true “natural volume” due to the same gain if I understood well, many velocities&hellip😉, the hope to fill some lacks in the libraries, coherent approach… But, not to be used with MIR.
I feel not confident enough to mix these new instruments, apart from MIR, with all I already own in MIR. So I have two ways :
1/ stay with something which could be called an obsolete approach in few years and continue (with envy for people who could have this new system and a nice sound) my all day fights to reach a sound I can’t get
2/ or accept that all I bought is obsolete, discard all this “investment”, and spend many many many more money to have the new series, usable by me only when it will be complete (since I don’t see me mixing old and new instruments, due to my lack of expertise on the subject).
Don’t see anger, I just explain how I’m lost. So much lost that I plan to not buy any new instrument anymore, until I have visibility on this new Synchron series (rhythm of releases, instruments/articulations, feedbacks and reviews, instruments mixing easily and clearly). Which doesn’t suit me neither, since I need (or feel the need for 😊) new instruments/articulations and the situation could last months or years.
Again, no anger, VSL does a great job, with MIR and dry samples or with this new series. Just the fear I did the wrong costly choices, or that I would do other wrong costly choices.
I’m really open that someone reassure me or explain me.
-
Stay confindent, as far as I understood, you will be able to combine previous and new Libraries at least as soon as the Synchron-stage-venue for MIR is available. Which allows you to bring your dry libraries in a likewise acoustic environment so you may use the natural recorded acoustic of the new libraries with them.
-
Stay confindent, as far as I understood, you will be able to combine previous and new Libraries at least as soon as the Synchron-stage-venue for MIR is available. Which allows you to bring your dry libraries in a likewise acoustic environment so you may use the natural recorded acoustic of the new libraries with them.
Yes, that's the plan. 😊 We work on it.
... obviously you will still hear certain differences between the two approaches, but MIR will build the bridge between them. In some cases, the similarity between the room impression you get from Synchron samples and the MIR'ed version of Silent Stage recording is quite staggering. Listen to some audio files we created as proof-of-concept (with actual instrument recordings instead of samples, but the principle is more or less the same):
-> https://www.synchronstage.com/en/technology#!mir_synchron_tech
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
Hi Dietz: just one question:
As far as I understand right, I found exactly the same microphonepositions in the Synchronstage-venue as are used for the recording of the synchronstage-series.
but...
currently (in your inhouse use screenshot) I only saw only one Volumecontroler on the side bar, as we are used in all other venues to have only one stereooutput (= one Microphone which we may position in the venue),
Will the Synchronstage venue-have multiple outputs to mix the different microphonepositions as one will be able to do with the Synchronstageseries-samples?
-
No need to use bold fonts! 😉 We hear you.
****
Please understand that there is no Secret Master Plan To Rule Them All, but just a bunch of audio guys, software engineers and music affcionados who want to cut a swath through the jungle of virtual orchestration. 😉 We're all learning while we're proceeding.
Regarding your question: That's exactly why I added my "PS". 😊 What the screenshot shows is an in-house testing setup which is not meant for use with a release-version of MIR Pro. It shows a recording setup similar, but not identical to Synchron Percussion. But MIR Pro will offer Ambisonics IR recordings, otherwise it won't (it can't!) work as expected. - More details are available in the addendum to MIR Pro's manual, called "Think MIR!".
MIR has eight outputs since its initial release, and while we are indeed discussing the options for even more outputs, the software will stay like it is in this respect for the foreseeable future.
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
Stay confindent, as far as I understood, you will be able to combine previous and new Libraries at least as soon as the Synchron-stage-venue for MIR is available. Which allows you to bring your dry libraries in a likewise acoustic environment so you may use the natural recorded acoustic of the new libraries with them.
Yes, that's the plan. 😊 We work on it. ...obviouslyyou will still hear certain differences between the two approaches, but MIR will build the bridge between them. In some cases, the similarity between the room impression you get from Synchron samples and the MIR'ed version of Silent Stage recording is quitestaggering. Listen to some audio files we created as proof-of-concept(with actual instrument recordings instead of samples, but the principle is more or less the same): ->[url=https://www.synchronstage.com/en/technology#!mir_synchron_tech]https://www.synchronstage.com/en/technology#!mir_synchron_tech[/url] Does somebody know the piece she plays on her harp? I want to hear the whole song 😊 Best Lars
-
Hi Dietz
(Oh "bold" does not mean anything emotional at all for me, it is only a way to point out what seems to me the most important aspects of my from time to time a bit clumsy wording😉)
OK 8 Outputs I just used MIR inside VE and obviously didn't looked so much for external routing. I only think it would be a very interesting enrichment for MIR if we would be abls to work in one venu with multiple microphones (everything is fine I am just trying to point out the main Idea😃)
However there will be still enough new things to organize to make the best of what is going to come.
Please help us to make powerful complex things simple (=easy) to handle.
