Paul said something about the"natural noise floor" in these new samples,, in one of the exciting Synchron Percussion presentations video. I don't know if I can share a youtube link in the forum, so in the Synchron Bells video at 0':45'' you can clearly hear the noise floor coming up in the high dynamic sample; that one doesn't sound like natural noise floor, but like "too much gain added" :) ,
Now, personally, I have plenty of beutiful samples from other companies made almost unusable because of the noise some layer has. VSL libraries are so perfect in that field, I really hope you were so unlucky to trigger one of the few "bugged" sample of this new thrilling library in the video! :P
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OK another simple but presumably indiscrete question:
What should we expect from the Synchron-Series:
Am I that wrong if I expect it would it be
- all what is Part of the Symphonic cube
- with 7 mixable Synchronstage microphone-positions ( Hi Jeff....š) and
- auro 3D acoustic
- considerably more Velocitylayer with
- Need for ten time more SSD-Storage (3-4 TB)
- and all that twice as expensive as the current silentstage Symphonic cube.
(I know that no VSL-guy will ever answer but, this is what seems to me reasonable to expect from the upcoming new Synchron-Series)
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I think they record everything you heard in the Jurassic Parc Video ... their own Orchestra. Regarding to this Percussion 1-package ... I had the Time 2 watch all Videos now and listened with Headphones. The Bassdrum is the best in the Package - love that bass! Timpani Sounds good too - especially the glissandi. On the other hand the Celesta sounds like all the others outthere Nothing overwelming here. If I had to choose the best of the Package I would go with drums 1. And maybe ... because the bassdrum and the timpani are standing in the Center of the room, both could work with other roompacks. If I should buy the drums 1, I will make a test with the Bassdrum and inform you about that. Maybe you have to use a Gate-PlugIn that cuts the reverb-tail automated off. BTW ... the bad answer from Paul made looking for other MIR - friendly Products wich are compatible to Orchestral Instrumtents & I endend at Bestservice buying PHOBOS from BT yesterday. (Goddamn ... It is a "gamechanger for itsself" too ;)
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Hallo Dietz, die "schlechte" Antwort lautet, dass man die SS-Percussions 1 nicht in anderen MIR Packs einsetzen kann. Jetzt wo ich das Setup Video gesehen habe verstehe ich es erst recht nicht. An der Stelle 1:40 des Setup-Videos erklƤrt Paul, dass man Ć¼ber den Drehknopf 1a im Vienna Instrument die "Position des Close Mics" bestimmen kann und dreht ihn auf die 11 Uhr Position, damit man die Toms auf der entsprechende Position hƶrt. Also gibt es doch eine Positionierungsmƶglichkeit ... So und jetzt noch einmal die groĆe Frage: Wenn ich die Toms von 11 Uhr auf 12 Uhr drehe, sind diese dann nicht im Center, sodass ich (NUR) die Close aufgenommenen Samples auch wunderbar in anderen MIR Roompacks verwenden kann? Es geht nicht darum die weiteren Mikrofonpositionen in anderen Roompacks zu nutzen!! Dass das nicht geht ist klar... Es geht nur um die Funktion desReglers1a im VI, der offenbar ein L/R-Positions-Button fĆ¼r das Close-mic ist? Denn dann wƤre es ja doch mƶglich, die Close Samples in anderen Roompacks zu verwenden ... Falls es ein MisverstƤndnis wƤre, dann sollte man diese Mƶglichkeit den Usern klarmachen, denn die Mono-Samples in anderen Roompacks zu nutzen, ist (denke ich ) alles was sie wollen. Es geht auch nicht darum, dass die Close Position keinen Reverbtail haben darf ... der kurze Reverb stƶrt die meisten User nicht - wie man an anderen Libraies sieht, die von Drittherstellern in MIR verwendet werden. Und man kƶnnte den ja auch weg-gaten, z.B bei Instrumenten wie Cymbals, wo der Reverbtail lauter zu hƶren ist als bei Tiefen oder tief-mittigen KlƤngen. AuĆerdem bin ich Paul ja nicht bƶse ... PHOBOS ist genial : )
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It's not supposed too, but you can quite successfully do that. Synchrom close mics sound beautiful and pretty dry, so you could try to use them inside Mir. Otherwise it means any other library but Vsl ones could be used in Mir, because I can't recall many other library recorded in anechoic rooms.
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For the other readers .. Just to avoid misunderstandings. What I called "bad answer" refers only to Pauls info, that SS-Percussion 1 is not supposed to be used in MIR. That's all š He did not give me "names" :)
I see. š
You're right: Technically you could use the close-mics of Synchron instruments with MIR. The results will be just fine, but you have to be aware of several important differences compared to VSL's Silent Stage recordings. The distinctive reverb tail is one of them. But most of all: These are close mics which were recorded as part of a "bigger picture", so to speak. These mics on their own won't (and aren't meant to) represent an instrument as comprehensively as we are used to by samples recorded at Silent Stage*). Close mics provide means to add definition and "grip" to potentially overwhelming spatial audio information.
... it goes without saying that it doesn't make much sense to send the Decca-tree or surround tracks of Synchron Percussion into MIR, of course.
*) Sidenote: Contrary to common belief and urban legends, VSL never recorded "close" or in an anechoic environment, just "without reverb". ;-)
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
Thanks for the great conversation here... Paul, Lars, Dietz, Fabio, et al. It's remarkable that we can have this conversation with the actual product managers themselves. I have watched the demo videos, and am really impressed with the improvements to Tympani. The new set handles releases so much better and looks easier to use. It sounds great! I also love the sound of the new bass drum. Regarding the room space, I may be fortunate in that Teldex is my "go to" MIR room, and Syncron stage looks to be a similar style room. So, mixing the old and new might work okay. (And when a Syncron Stage MIR Pack is available, it would obviously match even better). On the other hand, if I want to use a larger space like Sage Gateshead, it sounds like there isn't an ideal soulution, but two workarounds. 1) use the close mic alone from syncron stage and run it through MIR to place it in the room, or 2) run the syncron recording through a traditional reverb to add a longer tail, fiddling until it sounds good. I am still trying to envision how to make this as intuitive as possible, because I really liked the flexibility of the silent stage recordings, to position instrumentalists where you want them, whether using MIR or not. I wonder how easy that will be with Syncron stage.
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2) run the syncron recording through a traditional reverb to add a longer tail, fiddling until it sounds good.
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This.
That's how it is done with actual recordings from sound stages anyway (be it Synchron Stage or others).
/Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library -
Hi All!
Great that VSL is taking on the other "big boys" of non dry orchestral sampling and that they entered this field with a "Paukenschlag"! (Pun intended)
Maybe a solution to havin a MIR like workflow would be a Synchron MIR Venue that would allow to place signals on the Stage without the Reverb being added (like for example Virtual Sound Stage does it). This would make the "Panning" of Instruments much easier and should be quite workable for the close mics with "reverb" being added by the room mics.
Whatever the solution will be, I'm shure VSL will nail it as always!
Keep up the good work and hopefully we will see another Synchron Library soon!
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Time Stretching & 1 Future-wish for Dietz ... What I always love to do with Glissandi, Runs, Dynamics ... is timestretching in VI Pro. It makes all Sounds exactly fitting to the Tempo you imagine in a Situation. As there are Glissandi in this new library too I wanted to ask, ... Does "stretching the Time of Samples" work / sound good with this new concept? I have no headaches with the Close Signal but I'm not sure If this works properly with the Roomsignals?? In the Setup-Video I see the Time Stretching Option available in VI Pro. So, you did not take it out ... what at least could mean that it does sound well. Yesterday I watched a Youtube Video of Spitfire Symphonic Strings and when it came to their Time Stretching solution the Moderator said "it does not sound bad, but unnatural" if you stretch the Decca-Sounds too short. (Dietz, die Mitbewerber wecken teilweise interessante VSL-WĆ¼nsche. Die offerieren den Usern kĆ¼nstliches ConSordino und Ponticello. Dass du das - als Meister der Mixkunst - auch kannst, hƶrt man in den MIR preEQ-Optionen. Z.B. Klingt "Silk" Ƥhnlich wie ConSord ... das es dass nicht ist, weiĆ man nur, wenn man die Samples hat. Deshalb wĆ¼nsche ich mir in einem MIR Update "kĆ¼nstliches Ponticello" made by Dietz fĆ¼r die Dimension Strings 1 und die Appassionatas 1 als PreEQ-Option) Greetings Lars
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"- Disable Cells Feature in VI: You can now load samples of a cell only when it is receiving MIDI, and load presets with disabled cells, enabling them on demand."
Between the Disabled Cell feature and the Reset, Learn and Optimizie feature even the large Synchron libs will be very managable. I have a very large mixed VSL/Kontakt template that loads up with zero RAM footprint. Samples get loaded into RAM as they recive MIDI input (for both VI Pro and Kontakt). During or after I'm finished composing, before I print to stems I optimize everything. RAM footprint is reduced to such a low level, even computers with only 16GBs of RAM would be able to deal with playback, no problem.
(Not trying to self-promote) My Youtube channel has some VEP optimization videos, but I should make one for Synchron and VI Pro/VEP. Just ask if you want me to post a link (I don't want to step on any toes here).
Synchron!! Hallelujah!! I'm so glad VSL has taken this route.
Steve Steele
Regards, Steve Steele https://www.stevesteele.com -
While I fully understand and sympathize with the decision by VSL to embrace the "wet" samples market, I am also a bit sad to see this happen. Obviously no company has unlimited resources of monetary or human captial. As a result every "wet" product means one less "dry" product that could have been created.
I own many VSL products. In fact almost all of them. I love the quality, the consistency, and the flexibility of VSL products. The Vienna Instruments Pro player is the best sample player, period. Because of the highly efficient VSL dry samples and Vienna Instruments Pro I can easily have a large symphony orchestra of very high quality samples loaded on my 48GB I7 computer. No slave computer needed. So I really appreciate the "dry" sample technoloby.
I had hopes that VSL would begin to improve on some silent stage products with more velocity layers and perhaps an even wider range of instruments. Personally I would really love to have a true Eb Alto/Tenor horn, a true Baritone horn, and Cornet ensemble, as well as other products related to Brass Band and Symphonic Band.
Still, I understand the logic behind the decision to go "wet" and I hope that it will be a tremendous economic success for VSL. If the "wet" products boost cash flow, perhaps VSL can also occassionally do an improved version of an existing silent stage product or a completely new release.
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Hello,
Let me present my profile, which is not at all unique, I imagine.
Iām a young film composer, using mainly orchestra, and Iām not an audio engineer (I had to learn all the audio mixing by myself, and I still learn each day&hellipš, so I need software/samples which facilitate my life, as intuitive and simple as possible, ideally with good presets. This is the case with Vienna Instruments, Vienna Suite and MIR. MIR is not perfect for someone like me, since I still have to set volumes (natural volumes are a start, but not all instruments have it specially in percussions, and some are not coherent, at least at my ears), and to apply some effects to try to reach a satisfying sound, the most Iām able to have. So, not perfect (nothing is&hellipš, but a very BIG help, without which I couldnāt achieve many projects.
Since many years, I buy new Vienna instruments, one by one, sometimes bundle by bundle when I can. Lots of money, but I consider this like a sort of investment (yes I know, investments donāt exist in software).
Today, a new concept arrives in Vienna, and seems the new era /philosophy of VSL. Excellent sound, nice promises (a true ānatural volumeā due to the same gain if I understood well, many velocities&hellipš, the hope to fill some lacks in the libraries, coherent approachā¦ But, not to be used with MIR.
I feel not confident enough to mix these new instruments, apart from MIR, with all I already own in MIR. So I have two ways :
1/ stay with something which could be called an obsolete approach in few years and continue (with envy for people who could have this new system and a nice sound) my all day fights to reach a sound I canāt get
2/ or accept that all I bought is obsolete, discard all this āinvestmentā, and spend many many many more money to have the new series, usable by me only when it will be complete (since I donāt see me mixing old and new instruments, due to my lack of expertise on the subject).
Donāt see anger, I just explain how Iām lost. So much lost that I plan to not buy any new instrument anymore, until I have visibility on this new Synchron series (rhythm of releases, instruments/articulations, feedbacks and reviews, instruments mixing easily and clearly). Which doesnāt suit me neither, since I need (or feel the need for š) new instruments/articulations and the situation could last months or years.
Again, no anger, VSL does a great job, with MIR and dry samples or with this new series. Just the fear I did the wrong costly choices, or that I would do other wrong costly choices.
Iām really open that someone reassure me or explain me.
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Stay confindent, as far as I understood, you will be able to combine previous and new Libraries at least as soon as the Synchron-stage-venue for MIR is available. Which allows you to bring your dry libraries in a likewise acoustic environment so you may use the natural recorded acoustic of the new libraries with them.
