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  4. Where is the Bass Recorder?

  • Where is the Bass Recorder?

    A
    A

    Some weeks ago I bought the recorders because I want to make a simulation of my recorderquartett which was never played by human musicans.

    I have to admit that I didn’t look what instruments and articulations the Vienna recorders include (I have many Vienna Instruments and never I was dissatisfied with the content of the collections). But after after receiving the collection I was very astonished that the Vienna Recorders don’t include the bass recorder. The bass recorder is a standard  instrument for recorder quartets and recorder ensembles. It’s not possible to replace it with the Great Bass recorder. Unfortunately I’m not able to make the simulation of my quartet without the Bass Recorder.

    It’s a severe shortage that the bass recorder is missing. I hope that soon a supplement will appear with a bass recorder.

     

    But in general I’m very satisfied with the Vienna Instruments. BTW: There are still 2 other instruments which I miss: Sopranino-Saxophone and Accordion. 
  • J
    J

    I'm not sure exactly what you paid for when you purchased the recorders but under the "Sample Content" of the recorders near the bottom it says, "Great Bass Recorder."

    I admit that I don't own the recorders but is a "bass recorder" different than a "GREAT bass recorder?"

    Is that what you were looking for?

    Here's a link to the sample content:

    http://vsl.co.at/en/Additional_Winds_Bundle/Recorders#!Sample_Content
  • J
    J

    I'm sorry my last post was misleading.  

     

    I basically wanted to know what the difference is between a bass recorder and a Great Bass Recorder.
  • W
    W

    There is a bass recorder.  I featured it in the demo - "Song of the Forest" - the first recorder heard in the composition.  (Though you have to  scroll down the list to Kersten, William...)

    http://vsl.co.at/en/MUSIC
  • A
    A

    Vienna Instruments have:

    SOPRANO RECORDER, ALTO RECORDER, TENOR RECORDER, GREAT BASS RECORDER

     

    But in the Presets and Patches the “Great Bass” is called “Bass”. Also in Williams composition it’s the Great Bass. The Great Bass is in C3, the Bass is in F3.

     

    The Bass is in recorder quartets and recorder ensembles ubiquitous. I guess that 90% of the recorder quartets use SATB. The Great Bass is also a common instrument, but not so often used in ensembles like the Bass. 
  • W
    W

    "The bass recorder is a standard  instrument for recorder quartets and recorder ensembles. It’s not possible to replace it with the Great Bass recorder. " - andreas1

    This is not true.  The "Great Bass" is the name used for two different recorders, the quart bass in C and the contrabass in F.  The C instrument range is from C in the bass clef to approx. D in the treble, the contrabass is from F in the bass clef to approx. G in the treble. The so-called "bass" is an octave higher than the contrabass. Both "great bass" ranges overlap with the tenor recorder, so either could easily be used for bass parts. In fact the Great Bass will give a lower tessitura while still covering the middle bass notes as well as a richer tone which is probably why it is used in this ensemble.  
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    In German the names for recorders were until the 20th century not consistent (cf. Curt Sachs: Reallexikon der Musikinstrumente, Berlin 1913). At latest from the 70s there is a standard for the recorder names (cf. e.g.: Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart; dtv-Musikatlas; Sevsay: Handbuch der Instrumentationspraxis: Great Bass is in C3, the Bass is in F3. But there is an exception for Renaissance (and rarely for Baroque) music: Sometimes the “Great Bass” is called „Bass“. This is the cause of many misunderstandings about recorder names. I am not as familiar with the English instrument names, but I guess it’s like in German: cf. A. Stiller: Handbook of Instrumentation, University of California Press, 1985; or: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recorder_(musical_instrument).

    It’s true that the range oft he Great Bass overlaps with the Tenor. But for me is the Great Bass no alternative to the Bass because the difference in sound. Also I never would replace the Cello in a String Quartet with the contrabass.

    Maybe interesting: Moeck is the biggest publisher for recorder music: http://www.moeck.com/en/publishing/sheet-music.html

    In the catalogue are only a few compositions with Great Bass (abbreviated gB), but much more for Bass (abbreviated B).

    Andrew Stiller wrote in his Handbook of Instrumentation about the Bass, that the Bass is usually available. About the Great Bass he wrote “very rare“.

    I don’t understand the decision of VSL to take the Great Bass and not the Bass.
  • W
    W

    Instrument nomenclature is notoriously complicated and unreliable, depending on what source you reference.  However the comparison of distinctions between bass recorder vs. great bass to cello vs. contrabass is specious and disingenuous.  No composer in his right mind would ever substitute those strings for each other.  Not to argue it endlessly, however.  The recorder that was sampled is incredibly beautiful, in fact, I would rank it among the most beautiful of all VSL's sampled instruments, so I for one am glad they sampled that particular recorder.

    Nevertheless I appreciate your making the distinction. 
  • A
    A

    A question for the VSL employees: Are there any plans to release a bass recorder?
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi andreas1, 

    A bass recorder is not planned in the near future. 

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • P
    P
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    Hi Paul,

    there is also no planned piccolo ? There are some nice Vivaldi's concertos waiting for it ... 😉

    Best.

    Philippe.
  • A
    A

    Many thanks for your response. What a pity! Unfortunately because of that I can not simulate my quartet with Vienna Instruments. I have tried the Great Bass, but it doesn't sound good.
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi Philippe, 

    We are planning to record all the instruments we can get our hands on. It simply takes a lot of time to record and edit all of those instruments properly. 

    So right now, there is also no piccolo at the horizon. 

    And andreas1, I´m sorry that your quartet doesn´t sound like you want it to sound. Maybe it´s a good idea to hire a bass recorder player for that purpose?

    Best,
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Product Manager VSL
  • W
    W

    This thread really irritates me.  This guy says the recorder ensemble is not good enough for him.

    I don't believe it for one second. HE is not good enough for it. 

    It is one of the most outstanding jobs of sampling yet done, far better than anything else sampled for recorders, and the fabulous player who did the recordings is an outstanding virtuoso that anyone using the library gets instant access to.   

    I should not post here anymore because I get too irritated, but I find it disgusting - the total lack of appreciation for the outstanding beauty of the various libraries here.   The recorder is a perfected example of the ultimate expertise in sampling that VSL has achieved.  To just blow it off the way this guy does is very disturbing. 
  • J
    J
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    @andreas1 said:

    I have tried the Great Bass, but it doesn't sound good.
    Well, why don't you let us be the judge of that, if I may be so bold. I'd love to hear your recorder quartet realized with VSL. By all means, go ahead and post it :>)
  • A
    A
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    @andreas1 said:

    I have tried the Great Bass, but it doesn't sound good.
    Well, why don't you let us be the judge of that, if I may be so bold. I'd love to hear your recorder quartet realized with VSL. By all means, go ahead and post it :>😉

     

    Out of context the phrase sounds different than intended:

    I mean: With the Great Bass my Quartet doesn’t sound good, because it’s the wrong instrument.
  • A
    A
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    @Paul said:

    We are planning to record all the instruments we can get our hands on. It simply takes a lot of time to record and edit all of those instruments properly. 

    Great to hear!
  • A
    A
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    @Paul said:

    And andreas1, I´m sorry that your quartet doesn´t sound like you want it to sound. Maybe it´s a good idea to hire a bass recorder player for that purpose?

    Thank you for the suggestion, but the effort for this is too large for the purpose.
  • W
    W

    I have no idea now why I responded to this thread - better just to work on some music with the great VSL samples.  I'll stick to that approach.