Hi Beat,

Thanks for clearifying.

Just one question; when you talk about opening multiple instances, do you mean it as setting up three selected instrument channels in the VSL mixer, with different wet/dry values?

/Erik

@exister said:

Hi Beat,

....do you mean it as setting up three selected instrument channels in the VSL mixer, with different wet/dry values?

/Erik

Yes

Within the DAW mixer you could open 3 Groupe- (Bus- in Logic) Channels with an integrated VST-MIR-Instance or 3 Vienna Ensembles or...  you also could adjust the wet signal of each instrument on stage in one MIR-Instance... This should work as well. So there are several possiblities. The aim is to get more distance between the front and the back instruments on stage so to say - more depth as usual.

Beat

Ok great!

Since I have all my instruments set in only once instance, I will go for the second method.

However, as I understand, changing the wet/dry balance for the induvidual instruments on the MIR stage also affects that instruments volume (which I then would have to compensate for).

Therefore, I wonder if it would be a good alternative to have all instruments's dry signals routed to the main output bus in the VSL mixer but have the wet signals for each instrument group routed to it's own group channel (which then would send to the main output).

This way, I imagine, I could control the wet-ratio by just changing the input signal to the three group channels and the dry signal would stay the same (no compensation for volume needed).

Haven't tried this yet but does it sound like a good aproach compared to setting the induvidual instruments on stage?

/Erik

Hi Erik

First of all: Keep in mind that my suggestion here is not a must!

Secondly: I don't want that you loose all the advantages of MIR because it is a fantastic help for mixing a whole orchestra the easy way. So decide what ever you would like to do.

Nevertheless it would be great to hear the difference between the common use of MIR and those of an advanced application. I would go for solutions where you are able to change the wet/dry-ratio with one knob per section how ever you like to achieve this.

All the best

Beat

Ok, I hear you! :)

Good suggestions still and I'll post an edited version in this thread as soon as I have it.

/Erik

Hi,

As promised, here is an updated version of the piece:

https://soundcloud.com/erik-nordin-5/beethoven-symphony-no5-by-erik-nordin

I have made some overall adjustments but also changed the deepth of the induvidual instruments/groups as recommended by Beat K.

/Erik

Hey guys,

I started a Beethoven's 5th mock-up in 2011 with VSL.

Beethoven's 5th Mock-Up

I ended up getting another project so I never finished this. It's only the very opening. But I was always very happy with the quality of the mock-up. I've only ever owned the Special Edition 😞 and back then I used to do an insane amount of tweaking of cc data to get things to where they should be. I compared it to recordings back and forth, etc.

For the strings I used chamber, orchestral, and appassionata- all in a constant state of flux with some parts coming out more than others for any given note. That much detail is what makes VSL awesome. It's powerful for sure. Although I usually prefer to avoid that much work. I want to focus on the music, not the programming. Fortunately I've found some tricks since then so it doesn't take long now. But there's the story and there's the mock-up. Hope it's useful to hear. Cheers!

-Sean

Well done Sean! So far, only appassionatas was used but I will try to combine the different string libraries. Seems like both chamber and orchestral strings were recorded at a closer distance.

/E

@exister said:

Hi,

As promised, here is an updated version of the piece:

https://soundcloud.com/erik-nordin-5/beethoven-symphony-no5-by-erik-nordin

I have made some overall adjustments but also changed the deepth of the induvidual instruments/groups as recommended by Beat K.

/Erik

Hi Erik

Sorry that I answer with such a delay. Had to record a concert over the weekend... OK when I compare the current depths with version 1, it seems that the strings are probably a bit closer but then the rest of the sections seem to be even farther away than with the first version...

I produced an example with your music and with a real recording for a better comparison and as a good help for seeing things which still could be improved.

(What I did) I copied your mp3 file. I also downloaded any 5th symphony of youtube, took out the music of the mp4 and turned it to an mp3 file as well - so both files do have the same quality. Then I brought both mp3s to the same average level. After that I played a bit from your file and then a bit from the one of youtube and so on. Important to know as well I didn't use any effect on both examples!

Example-Comparison (mp3) You will recognize mainly 3 things:

• 1. You did quite a good job with the articulations and the dynamics!!! Bravo once more.
• 2. Your music sounds still far more wet and distant than the real recorded piece.
• 3. The sound of MIR...

What could you do? Reduce all the wet ratios -10%... -15% within the MIR(s?) and your orchestra will appear closer and the colourful venue-sound of MIR will be reduced in the mean time.

!!! You really should not do these tweaks for me. If you believe that the sound of your MIR-Mix is correct, take it and please stopp doing anything !!!

Happy Music

Beat

Hi Beat,

Many thanks for creating that very describing example! Mixing has never been my strong side but I see what you mean. I would never do something just because somebody says so...  I agree with you that it might take the piece to another level.

The main reason for setting up this mockup is of course to learn more so your and other people's input is higly apreciated! :)

I give it another shot toonight and see what comes out!

/Erik

And here are the new version (with adjusted wet/dry ratio):

https://soundcloud.com/erik-nordin-5/beethoven-symphony-no5

/Erik

@Another User said:

And here are the new version (with adjusted wet/dry ratio):

https://soundcloud.com/erik-nordin-5/beethoven-symphony-no5

/Erik

I love the results of this "dry-out-process". The mix is getting closer and closer to real recordings of nowadays and also the coloured sound of MIR disappears more and more.

I believe it is now up to you to find those "dry/wet-ratios" which are to your taste. As mentioned in other threads as well I would take the strings even closer. 😉. So why not to do a mix which you think is too dry? May be you will finally find your mix between the "too dry mix and the one you currently posted. But as mentioned above it is now up to you.

One last remark: It is really important to listen to the mixes also with monitors. The matters of "distance and closeness" are normally more accurate demonstrated with speakers than with headphones.

And also do not forget to compare your results with real recordings from time to time. Those comparisons can show so much such as coloured mixes, muddyness, balances of instrument sections, wrong or better positions of instruments (left, right, in the front at the back). Further, you will learn to listen to those mixing matters more and more. This is important for doing better mixes yourself.  

That's it from my side.

Happy Music and a lot of success

Beat

Thanks Beat for all input.

This project has been a great journey for me in many ways to get started with VSL and the wet/dry contrasts really makes a big difference.

However, I now feel ready to leave the great world of beethoven and start to realize my own melodies! :)

Regards,

Erik