Which Vienna Symphonic Library to purchase initially??

[Edward Fiebke]

Hello -

I'm interested in adding to (or upgrading) my orchestral library. Currently, I use a combination of libraries for my orchestral templet (GPO, JABB, Kirk Hunter libraries, and a few others as well). I've been using this particular templet for a few years now. I do like this templet that I created. However, I'm noticing the same sounds over and over and over again which is beginning to get on my nerves. LOL! So, I would like to create a new orchestral templet with a new library.

A while back, I invested in VSL's VEPro 5, MIR and Vienna Suite, which I sometimes use for another orchestral templet using the same libraries noted above. Although this combination of programs can be used with other libraries, VEPro 5, MIR and Vienna Suite seem to be tailored to work best with VSL's own virtual orchestral instruments. So, I am strongly considering investing $$$$ in more VSL libraries. For the initial investment, the question is which one?

There is the "Vienna Symphonic Library Special Edition Complete Bundle" which costs $1,600.00 at Sweetwater (an online music/instrument store which I've used quite often throughout the years). This "Special Edition Complete Bundle" seems to be a watered down version of VSL's more professional libraries. This is OK, but it seems somewhat limiting in terms of future expansion and even creating THE most realistic orchestral sound (which I struggle to do with my compositions). Then there is the "Vienna Symphonic Library Symphonic Cube - Standard Library" which costs $2,075.00 at Sweetwater, which Is the basic of VSL's more complete professional orchestral libraries. It doesn't have all of the articulations and would eventually require purchasing VSL's "Symphonic Cube - Extended Library" for an additional $3,000.00 (from Sweetwater) to get the wider choice of different articulations for the instruments.

Without a doubt, it would be an expensive investment, even when purchasing "just" VSL's "Special Edition" (watered-down) libraries. But the investment would last me, potentially, the rest of my composing years. My goal is to continue to write orchestral-based compositions, and improve my writing and "sound engineering". (It's a hobby.)

Focusing on VLS's "Special Edition Complete Bundle" verses it's "Symphonic Cube - Standard Edition", which library would make the best initial investment? How much better is VSL's more professional libraries verses their "Special Edition" libraries?

I know that there are many other orchestral libraries out there. Trust me, I've explored them all. And, in the end, I might go a completely different route. For now, though, I wish to seek comments on the "Special Edition Complete Bundle" verses "Symphonic Cube - Standard Edition" route, or some variation of this.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments and insights.

Edited to add: An Introduction. I am an ICU/CCU nurse and have been nursing for many, many years. I also hold a degree in music composition (Film Composition, specifically, which I earned when flatbed moviolas were still in use and MIDI had not been invented yet) and have been composing music for an even longer period of time. Although not an expert, I am fairly familiar with VEPro 5, MIR and Vienna Suite, and enjoy their capabilities.

The following is an example of the orchestral compositions that I create. The compositions are more "Pop-Orchestral" stuff which I've been labeling "Orchestral Art Songs". The following was created using the my orchestral templet noted above (pre-VEPro 5/MIR). It's titled, Fall in Mid-October. I would use the VSL orchestral libraries for music like this: Fall in Mid-October

[noldar12]

Given your interests, you may find the SE Complete Bundle to be enough for your needs.  Even with SE, you will find that you have a much higher finished sound quality than with GPO and the like (I was a GPO user back in the day myself).

The other thing to consider getting is VI Pro.  VI Pro adds a great deal of flexibility to the free VI player, and the "stretch" function can be used to create additional articulations that will help fill in the gaps of what is offered in SE.  There are many other advantages in VI Pro as well.  Generally, it is suggested to master the free VI first, and then upgrade to VI Pro.

The SE libraries do require far less computer power and less ram.  SE 1, 1 Plus, 2, and 2 Plus combined will fit quite nicely into a mere 8 gigs of ram.

One advantage with VSL is their discount structure.  If you do start with SE Bundle and later decide to go to the full Cube, your Cube price will be discounted.

Like you, my interests are at the hobby level, though more traditional symphonic/chamber than pop-orchestral.  In the VSL world, I started with SE - the old version of 1, 1 Plus, 2 and 2 Plus. I then went to a mix of full libraries + SE, and recently to the full Cube.  There is no question that I prefer the full Cube, even though I am a bit limited due to my computer specs.

If your budget is tight, I would suggest starting with SE.  If you could afford it, going directly to the Cube would be strongly worth considering.  Running the Cube requires far more computer power, and ram.  You don't list your computer specs, but having 32 gigs of ram for the whole cube would be strrongly suggested.

Last, one of the biggest differences for me between SE and the full libraries is the percussion in SE vs. the full library percussion.  There is a wealth of percussion in the full library (standard + extended) that is simply not available in SE.

[Edward Fiebke]

noldar12 -

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I've heard a few orchestral mock-ups using VSL's Special Edition bundles and was quite impressed by the more authentic orchestra sound produced by them. Of course, the composer using those instruments has the "chops" to make a great sound (as well compose great music). Without a doubt, VSL's Special Edition Complete Bundle would be a nice investment and would immediately suit my modest needs. 

I guess I am interested in knowing the differences between VSL's "Special Edition" instruments and their more "Pro" instruments. Is it the number of articulations? Is it the number of  dynamic "layers" for each note of each instrument? Here is one question that I hope can be answered: Do the "Special Edition" instruments have samples that stretch over two or three notes verses one collection of layers samples per note? I guess I wish to know more precisely what makes the "Special Edition" special and different from VSL's pro-line instruments/bundles.

My computer specs should be seen in my signature (at least, I can see it when viewing my posts). Hopefully my computer can handle the "Cube" version if/when I purchase the bundle.  Here is my computer specs:

Early 2009 Mac Pro (2.26 GHz times 8 cores); 32 GB RAM; OS X 10.10.2; NVIDIA Quadro K500 video card; 7 internal SSDs (2 external RAID 0 set-ups for my video projects); 2 of MOTU's 2408 MK3 audio devices; Logic Pro X; MOTU's DP 8; various instrumental libraries housed on two of the internal SSDs.

In addition to the above Early 2009 Mac Pro, I have a Late 2012 Mac Mini (2.6 GHz intel Core i7); 16 GB RAM; OS X 10.10.2; 1 internal SSD and 2 external SSDs via USB 3 ports; MOTU's DP 8 and a modest number of instrumental libraries. So, I do have a nice "Master/Slave" set-up, thanks to VSL's VEPro 5 software.

Hopefully between the two computers I can manage VSL's more pro-line instruments. However, they are expensive and I do not have the financial resources to purchase VSL's Cube Standard Edition and Extended Edition bundles at this time. Instead, I might be able to start out with the Cube Standard Edition and purchase the Extended Edition at a later time. The concern is the number of articulations and instruments that would be missing in purchasing only the the Cube Standard Edition. Maybe VSL's "Special Edition Complete Bundle" has more articulations and instruments? I don't know. . . . 

[Migot]

efiebke,

I have Se vol 1, 2 +, and a similar computer...

I'm looking to get vol. 3 and 4.

Let's consider getting MirX, which I have too.

SE & MirX is a dream package. Great, great tool.

I'm writing full orchestra score and I have no problem.

Voilà

Alain

[Edward Fiebke]

Alain -

Thank you for your comment. Yes, It seems that the "Special Edition" bundle will be a good investment. I believe that the "S.E. Complete Bundle" will be my next purchase.  About 2 years ago, I purchased MIR Pro. Looking forward to utilizing it along with VSL's SE instruments.

Kind Regards. . .

[JimmyHellfire]

@efiebke_12205 said:

I guess I am interested in knowing the differences between VSL's "Special Edition" instruments and their more "Pro" instruments. Is it the number of articulations? Is it the number of  dynamic "layers" for each note of each instrument? Here is one question that I hope can be answered: Do the "Special Edition" instruments have samples that stretch over two or three notes verses one collection of layers samples per note?

All of this, yes.

The full libraries have a  greater amount of articulations. However, a SE library along with its SE+ extension already offers a pretty good variety of articulations and covers quite a lot of musical ground on its own. You should definitely take a closer look at the sample content on the product pages of the libraries and compare SE libraries with their full library counterparts, in order to find out which of them suit your needs. For example, I think that for a lot of media/production music work, like music for television or games, the SE articulations can suffice. If one is mocking up "serious" orchestral works and very sophisticated music, the high detail and variety of the full libraries might be neccessary for the task.

Certain patches of the full libraries do have one more dynamic layer (some patches perhaps two?), which is of course nice to have. I think VSL has done a fine job in making sure that the SE libraries still sound expressive and musical though.

The SE libraries are sampled in whole tone steps, while the full libraries are sampled chromatically. To be honest, I don't really hear any significant disadvantage in the whole tone sampling.  I'm working with a mix of SE and full libraries, and while I didn't actively listen for differences between half- and whole tone sampling yet,  I can't say that I'm hearing anything in the SEs that irks me in practice. This might of course be different for someone else.

IMO, the greatest advantage of the full libraries, and for me the most deciding factor, is the greater variety of articulations.

P.S.: Sweet and spirited piece you posted earlier!

[Edward Fiebke]

JimmyHellfire - 

(I like your UserID. . . and if it truly is your name, then good for you! LOL! 😃 I'm just being silly! LOL!)

Thank you for your explanation regarding the differences between the SE libraries. I thought that I read somewhere, a while back, that the SE instruments had samples that stretched over a couple of notes. I wasn't sure, though. You're correct. If done nicely, usually one doesn't know the difference. It certainly is not a show-stopper for me.

I've been using the same orchestral templet, or some variation of it, for a number of years. I need a change in sound. I've been listening to really great renditions on this web site as well as on YouTube of orchestral music created using the SE libraries. As I might have mentioned before, I am deeply impressed by the authenic orchestral sound by a couple of individuals who obviously have "the chops" to create such music.

I finally figured out where to find, on this rather LARGE web-site, the listed articulations of their instrumental libraries for both the SE instruments and their more pro-line instruments.  Given the quality orchestral mock-ups that can be created with the SE bundles, as well as rather generous list of articulations found within them, I'm comfortable purchasing VSL's Special Edition Complete Bundle. I would LOVE to have VSL's entire pro-line collection! But that would require me to work a WHOLE LOT of overtime at work . . . and, I just don't want to work that hard! LOL! (Besides, I need the time to do more composing.)

I do appreciate all of the thoughtful comments that have been shared here. I'll probably be purchasing the SE Complete Bundle within the next week or two.

Cheers. . . 

Ted

Edited to add:
You wrote:
[Quote]"P.S. Sweet and spirited piece you posted earlier!"[/Quote]

I think that you're referring to the composition that I shared. If so, thank you for the listen and kind comment! That, along with a whole much of other orchestral pieces, will be re-done with the new library! Should be fun!

[noldar12]

You will do quite fine with the full SE bundle.  You can get the full libraries for individual sections later as you need them.

Best wishes for your success with VSL.  You won't regret your purchase.

[DaddyO]

As a Special Edition user and hobbyist myself, I think you will find the SE bundle (which includes the two articulation expansions) gives you exactly what you need without needlessly burdening you with a myriad of detail.

I completely agree with Noldar that you ought to add Vienna Instruments Pro 2 right off the bat. It's capabilities are staggering, it's flexibilities amazing. And it's a force-multiplier, in the sense that it gives you the tools to create custom adaptations of the articulations you have, as well as your own combination articulations. As over time you begin to unpack and appreciate it's features, you will find yourself reworking it's setup to better take advantage of them.

Best wishes on your new adventure!

[GoranTch]

Endorsing the recommendation made by the gentlemen above - in your case, Special Editions are the way to go. And I would consider the PRO player as well - when you know how to make the best out of it, it can make a big difference  for solving issues which can often be a pain to solve without it.

[matteo]

I own the SE Edition and it sounds very vell. I purchased the Single instrument Oboe (standard library) to try, but I can't notice a great difference. There's a new legato fast (very good) and a flatterzunge, the rest sounds the same to my ears (I hoped to find more velocity layers). I think that even the SE Edition is a wonderful and great orchestral collection! 

[Edward Fiebke]

A Follow Up

Well. . . I just made the purchase for the VSL S.E. Complete Bundle. Purchased it from Sweetwater. Awaiting for Sweetwater to contact VSL to get all of the access codes, etc. Of course, it is around midnight in Europe now. (It's 6:53 PM, EST, here.) I have a few hours wait, then I'll be downloading the VIs for another several hours. Barring any problems between Sweetwater and VSL, all should go well. 

I've been listening to a number of orchestral composition examples that people have made using the S.E. instruments. Again, these examples sound quite impressive. There is no doubt that these examples sound great because the people who created them have "The Chops" to compose the music and manipulate the software to achieve the professional sound. I'm no where near that advanced with my skills, but I'm not that far behind either. So, I'm hopeful.

Without a doubt, though, it will be fun as well as challenging as I learn the tools at hand.

Again, I am grateful for all of the thoughtful input. 

Happy music-making, folks! :)

[DaddyO]

@Edward Fiebke said:

A Follow Up

Well. . . I just made the purchase for the VSL S.E. Complete Bundle. Purchased it from Sweetwater. Awaiting for Sweetwater to contact VSL to get all of the access codes, etc. Of course, it is around midnight in Europe now. (It's 6:53 PM, EST, here.) I have a few hours wait, then I'll be downloading the VIs for another several hours. Barring any problems between Sweetwater and VSL, all should go well. 

I've been listening to a number of orchestral composition examples that people have made using the S.E. instruments. Again, these examples sound quite impressive. There is no doubt that these examples sound great because the people who created them have "The Chops" to compose the music and manipulate the software to achieve the professional sound. I'm no where near that advanced with my skills, but I'm not that far behind either. So, I'm hopeful.

Without a doubt, though, it will be fun as well as challenging as I learn the tools at hand.

Again, I am grateful for all of the thoughtful input. 

Happy music-making, folks! 😊

Congratulations, Edward. You won't be disappointed.

Did you get VI Pro as well? It's your business, of course, not mine, but I can't imagine investing in the SE Complete Bundle and not spending a tiny bit more to vastly multiply their benefit.

[Edward Fiebke]

Yes, I did purchase VI Pro. Seemed like a good thing to do, and it wasn't that much more money. (What's a little extra overtime spent at work, anyhow?!?! LOL!)

[DaddyO]

@Edward Fiebke said:

Yes, I did purchase VI Pro. Seemed like a good thing to do, and it wasn't that much more money. (What's a little extra overtime spent at work, anyhow?!?! LOL!)

Great. Enjoy.