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  4. Audio Input (wired as Insert) on Cubase Buses = PDC / Sync Woes
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hello jalcide, 

    We are listening. 

    Cubase 7 and DP8 have changed their threading models, which makes it hard for the audio input and/or event plugins to operate reliably. Under certain conditions, it can cause CPU spikes.

    Our developers are working on a different solution to use VE PRO as a FX host for Audio Tracks, more like a RACK option. 

    Unfortunately I cannot give you a time-frame for this next version (VE PRO 6?), but this topic will be addressed. 

    Best,

    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support
  • J
    J
    Thanks so much for the reply, Paul.

    That is wonderful news!

    Hardly even a "pivot" and you should quickly own that market space, and perhaps a few ancillary markets near it. I can even envision new cottage industries orbiting your products (e.g., 2U high, rackmounted VEP-ready slaves, etc.)

    Exciting times!

    Also, to clarify, I'm not sure the CPU spiking issue is related to the behavior I was seeing.

    At least the issues I've found are reproducible; that's a good thing.

    Anyway, if you need a beta tester to put the fx rack use-cases through their paces, I'm interested. :)

    Best regards,
    Jim (jalcide)
  • civilization 3C
    civilization 3C
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    last edited

    @jalcide said:

    (No, no other plugins being used for the slave functionality, just VEP.)

    All of this pain would go away if they just made a freakin' "Audio INSERT" (not INPUT). Aarrgg.

    I can't really follow most of this. The question per other plugins was, in Cubase, these busses. It appears you went to straight VEP from something that was going on in Cubase before the fact.

    Also, not sure what you mean by 'insert not input'. You can connect to Audio Input by an insert rather than instantiate an FX bus for it. Sorry if that is completely clueless and I'm not following.

    The remark about having to save in Cubase makes me ask, are you working coupled? A heavy use of VE Pro is best worked with uncoupled, it's more stable.
  • J
    J
    last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    ...are you working coupled?



    I tried it both ways. No difference.

    Also, the saving of the project under a new name only restores the audio if you revert to the previous state (e.g., delete the plugin you added). So, it's not really a workaround, after all.

    Also, UPDATE: I tried creating a server instance for each of the 24 stereo channels and that didn't work, either. It seemed to solve the cutting out of audio, thing, but was completely out of sync.

    At this point, I'm just going to use VEP as it was mainly intended: to offload virtual instruments. Which I still have an interest in doing.

    As for my need to output the 24 stereo stems for further processing, and back? I still need to find a solution for doing that while we wait for VSL to deliver their "FX Rack" solution for this.

    Since my i7 4770K is already water-cooled and overclocked, I'd need to move into a more expensive processor with more cores to do what I need all in one computer. This may turn out to be a cheaper solution than two 48 channel audio interfaces. Well, for sure it would.

    Then, I can move my current motherboard/CPU into a slave for other VEP tasks. This is probably what I'll do. Worst case scenario: The faster, higher core CPU is still not enough. In that case, I'll need to go the Audio Interface route and now just have a faster computer and a very fast slave. So, not a total loss, as I've just future-proofed myself a bit earlier than I need to. 😊

    But the VEP "FX Rack" solution will always remain the best way, as it allows the DAW to contain all the parameters within its project. Anything else is a less than ideal solution.
  • civilization 3C
    civilization 3C
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    last edited

    @civilization 3 said:

    The question per other plugins was, in Cubase, these busses. It appears you went to straight VEP from something that was going on in Cubase before the fact.

    If I understand what you're saying here: It's, does the fact that Group Channels before the Group Channels with VEP, are the sound sources, matter?

    I'm not sure. I don't think so. The PDC in Cubase that works before VEP and after VEP should all be okay. It's only stuff happening in parallel with VEP that causes the sync issue, I suspect.

    The stuff that happens in parallel, does it involve other plugins? I don't get why 'in parallel' through itself does this.

    I think you may want to consider more than one slave rather than hope there is one computer out there. It's too hot for me to try and say why though.

    If you're finding saving the project under a new name does anything, I think you could be experiencing corruption of projects in Cubase (overheating).
  • J
    J
    I can confirm there's no overheating or project corruption happening. The machine runs so cool and stable it passes the "Intel Burn Test." When Cubase corrupts projects (v6.5 did that to me twice), it's easy to tell: It crashes when attempting to load the project.

    VEP's audio cutting out, is very likely a coding issue between VEP and Cubase. The save acts as a sort of "reset" to a state, somewhere between the two. Since it happens during an edge-case (not typical use) of trying to shoehorn an Audio Input into doing something it really wasn't designed for, it's less a bug and more lack of a feature. :)

    It may be related to the thread thing, but that seemed to be mostly CPU spiking, which I was not seeing a problem with.

    As for your "several slaves" better than "one super computer" recommendation -- I totally agree.

    I'm already doing that for my mastering chain via simple optical cables to a computer dedicated for just that, using Cubase's external plugin thing. It's awesome.

    When I have some time, I'll try to recreate my sync issues in a simple, reproducible project. So that we can wrap our heads around it.
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    I don't know if you have mentioned this already - but did you make sure that you have "ASIO Guard" switched off in Cubase's Device Setings? Strange things can happen when this feature is enabled.

    Best,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • J
    J
    Thanks. Yes, I thought of that, too. It wasn't off initially (first few tests), but had been off since. No difference in behavior.

    (Also, I'm using the VST3 version. Everything is x64, as well.)
  • J
    J

    VSL, it's been a year. Any progress on the "FX Rack" product you mentioned.

    I'm still looking for a solution.

    Hope it's going well!

    Cheers.
  • PaulP
    VSL Team
    PaulP

    Hi jalcide, 

    Yes, time flies! Unfortunately I don´t have an update for you there, but it is on our long wish-list for VE PRO. 

    Best, 
    Paul

    Paul Kopf Head of Product Marketing, Social Media and Support