William, which taiko-legato is best for (a) Hans Zimmer sound and (b) Zack Hemsey sound?
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Thanks William! I see now. Great info... Lots of things to consider now but worth it! :-) My goal is to sound as natural as possible... For example, it was pointed out in the past to me that I had these endless legato passages (all notes connected) which effectively made for no bow change.
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If you set up a very simple custom matrix which has legato for the first cell, sustain for the second, detache then staccato for 3rd and 4th, you will be able to use almost all of the normal string bowing articulations by keyswitching between just those four. You can play a huge amount of string music beautifully with just those four articulations. If you start with sustain, you will get a fresh downbow, which can then be switched to legato for a new smooth line. If you need shorter articulations, more pronounced and shorter, you then can use the detache or staccato.
One thing that will always make your line sound more natural is to mix articulations, based on the phrasing of the line you are doing. So if it has a feel of starting on a certain note, even in the middle of a phrase, use sustain, detache (if the note is short enough) or even sforzando, then immediately switch to legato to connect the rest of the line or phrase.
The portato articulations are really good also, and in strings may be used instead of detache to get more complexity or a slightly different attack to the note. Also, the legato repeition notes in the strings - those are really good if you have a slower line, that you want to sound more natural.
The great thing about the VSL legato is that you can connect any previous note to a legato transition and target note. That is an awesome feature, when you think how it allows any kind of attack or dynamic to be used with a legato transition note. So if you start with a forte piano, then go to piano legato, you will have a totally different line that has an accented start then a soft legato melody. The same thing applies to the dynamic samples, which if you match correctly (simply by listening) you can create transitions to any following legato note. That allows for example, a crescendo sustain to a slurred fortissimo jump. Something you might often want to use for dramatic effect.
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Thanks so much William! Things are starting to better click now... I had totally misunderstood some things, and so glad you clarified. I wish VSL had written this somewhere in their documentation. All these advanced features should be detailed somewhere... :-/ In any case, looking forward to applying some of the above suggestions!
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@JimmyHellfire said:
Staccato, and its sibling, the spiccato, are currently obviously very popular in "trailer" and Hollywood action music with all those repeated rhythmical ostinato figures and slamming low double basses with celli octaves on top and all that. Can sound really cool and powerful when not overused.
So what about spiccato? I've never really been able to wrap my head around spiccato. And I guess it would be pretty disgusting if I actually did wrap my head around spiccato, or a tree, a telephone pole or anything else for that matter.[+o(]
To me, spiccato just sounds like 2/3rds of a staccato. Why not just use a lower velocity staccato or a "short staccato?" When would you use a spiccato?
BTW Guy Bacos has produced some great video demos for most of the major instrument collections. What I like about them is he shows you how just about every articualtion in the library can be used giving you an idea of how to incorporate those articulations in your composition.
Here's a link to the solo strings: http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/344/350/1030/643.htm
Chamber Strings 1: http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/344/351/1544/1203.htm
And Appassionata 1 : http://www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/344/422/1546/1205.htm
I hope they help.
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@BachRules said:
William, which taiko-legato is best for (a) Hans Zimmer sound and (b) Zack Hemsey sound?
Answer...
(a) TKperf_legato_piece of cardboard_thump!
(b) TKperf_legato smaller piece of cardboard_thud
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@jasensmith said:
So what about spiccato? I've never really been able to wrap my head around spiccato. And I guess it would be pretty disgusting if I actually did wrap my head around spiccato, or a tree, a telephone pole or anything else for that matter.
To me, spiccato just sounds like 2/3rds of a staccato. Why not just use a lower velocity staccato or a "short staccato?" When would you use a spiccato?
The bowing technique of spiccato is quite different and therefor the sound.
The standard staccato stroke is straight and rigid, and the bow doesn't actually leave the string. Therefor, the string can't vibrate and "ring out", and the note deadens off. There is also the possibility of lifting the bow after the stroke, but let's ignore that right now.
When playing spiccato, the player lets the bow "fall" on the string and bounce off it during a stroke. As this is also a quick, short motion, the initial contact of the bow hair with the string produces a short note, similar to a standard staccato - but as the bow bounces off, it lets the string ring out for a moment. This leaves us with a somewhat shorter attack and a more "ambient" tail of the note.
I feel that the spiccato sounds more swift, more light-footed and playing a figure spiccato has a certain "swing" to it, in contrast to the full sounding rigidness of the staccato. You could of course shorten the duration of the staccato notes and use a lower velocity, and I often do that. But what you don't get with staccato is that "bounciness" and the airy decay of the note, it just has a different, more swinging character.
When I'm doing repeated patterns and rhythmic motives with a lot of notes, I like to lean somewhat more on the spiccato, because staccato all the way could easily sound too overbearing and too stiff. For me, spiccato works more when I'm trying to suggest a feeling of "motion".
Or we could also say: staccato is like shooting someone with a crossbow, while spiccato is a little more like whipping them. Now that's something to wrap one's head around ... wonder what's the association with tremolo?
P.S. That solo violin video from Guy Bacos just doesn't get old. It really demonstrates a great sample library in the hands of an admirably skilled user. Every time I see it, I'm impressed to no end
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Great, thanks for the links! Will check them out. Very helpful. Concerning spiccato... Before switching to Orchestral music as my preferred style, I always thought of these rhythmical ostinatos as staccatos (don't forget, I have absolutely no background in classical music, only electronic music). So when I bought my first VSL, and started creating my first basic pieces, I realized the stacatto doesn't sound the way I was expecting it to sound. I was creating these 1/16th note ostinatos, and even though the sound was nice, it was not what I was expecting. So out I was in the search of this mystery articulation the way I was envisioning it in my head. In the end, I found, that articulation was spicatto. What makes it sound so distinct, I believe is the bouncing of the bow (correct me if I am wrong). The other thing I realized, if a violin player played 1/16th note staccatos for a long time, it would be an extremely physical demanding performance. Am I right or no? I think a spicatto would be less demanding for a player. Again that is when playing these long ostinato pieces. Again, these are conclusions I reached myself thinking about how to sound as natural as possible. Those who are violin players can freely pitch in!
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Hey Jimmy,
Thanks for your insight and thorough knowledge on all of this. I appreciate it.
And yes those videos are excellent[Y] I find myself reffereing to them constantly.
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Fortepiano implies a note that is played loud and suddenly silenced, forced into a lower level, you can think that is played one dynamic level higher than the surrounding notes and then suddenly one dynamic level lower. Sforzando implies a note that is played in a higher velocity than the surrounding notes, but some brass players will use it as an excuse to blare the note, so watch it.
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Thank you! I wish there was an "Articulation Reference Guide" document that describes what each articulation is, and how to best combine each one. Some are straightforward, but others are not. For example, I still don't get portato. I understand a bit the concept when it's played on slow melodies (as you slur you emphasize each note), but I don't understand how one would play a fast melody (1/16th notes) as portato.
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Consider any sample library as buying an instrument. When you buy a clarinet you do not get any hint how to play it - at best you might get some basic fingering chart, if it is a very cheap instrument aimed at beginners. But to learn the capabilities of it you will need at least a self teaching book, or get a teacher.
To use the instrument "VSL library" you also need to know (or learn), what to to with it. Best way would be to get some books on orchestration. There you'll find your "articulation reference guide".
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I swear theses guys must stay up late nights trying to figure out how to confuse their customers.
[url]http://vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=40515[/url]
Here is some articulation info that may interest you:
[url]http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/37423.aspx[/url]
[url]http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/37492.aspx[/url]
[url]http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/37849.aspx[/url]
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I agree with BachRules, and I definitely do not consider buying a sample library like buying an instrument -- it's not the same at all (apples and oranges). I think VSL is a wonderful and amazing product. Love it! But me being a software engineer for Wall Street firms, I can see the documentation is not thorough. I really appreciate that they take the time to answer all questions, but they must not assume their users are expert musicians. Even though they have great video tutorials, those tutorials are burried behind the site. The link to those videos should be the first thing you see when you enter vsl.co.at when you enter the main page. I sometimes end up finding these videos as I search on YouTube. These advanced concepts should be documented somewhere. I was shocked that nowhere did I find a description of performance legato/performance repetition etc. If that is a selling point for VSL, DOCUMENT IT for God's sake!
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Shopping for sample libraries can be quirky. It must be immensely confusing and not very encouraging for an inexperienced potential customer to pull the plug. They might look at the products page and ask themselves: do I need the Special Edition 1 and 2, or should I go for the Super Special Bundle 3, or perhaps the Extra Extended Edition 1 + 2 or maybe two of the Standard Download Instruments along with an Full Collection of Sis-boom-bah? Then they might head over to Spitfire Audio and think: well, they have a fancy website and moody artwork with airplanes, factories and old people, but the product descriptions speak about murals, brushstrokes, earth, wind and fire or sound swamps. What am I actually getting? And then they look up the EastWest page and go: there's this thing called Hollywood Strings and lucky me, they're having a -150% discount on it this very moment.