Thanks very much for the detailed explanation. It is very helpful.

Before I feel I can use these features to the fullest, I have a further question. Suppose I have a melody (for example, Solo Violin, since I have that one) which goes c-d-d-e; and suppose I want: 

• a perf_legato connection from the c to the d;
• a perf_rep connection from the d to the following d; and
• a perf_legato connection from the d to the e.

Is this the way to mix perf-legato and perf-rep articulations in a single melody? Or, how else can I mix perf-legato and perf-rep articulations in a single melody?

In general you got it right.

You do not necessarily have to overlap the notes on perf_leg, just the gap should be below 50ms (can be adjusted in VI Pro).

I think you should not overlap notes with Perf_rep.

If you have a note repeated only once (2 identical pitches in a row) during a legato phrase, you do not necessarily have to swich to a perf_rep articulation. The perf_leg have 2 alternations themselves, so there won't be a machinegun effect. The perf_rep patches are mostly used when there are at least 3 notes of the same pitch in a row.

@BachRules said:

Before I feel I can use these features to the fullest, I have a further question. Suppose I have a melody (for example, Solo Violin, since I have that one) which goes c-d-d-e; and suppose I want: 

• a perf_legato connection from the c to the d;
• a perf_rep connection from the d to the following d; and
• a perf_legato connection from the d to the e.

Hello again

I choose the samples because of their sound and never because of their name or because of a special notation.

Your example c-d-d-e could have several solutions of course - also depending on the tempo and the volume.

Listen the example (wav-file 8kB). It shows some possibilities how I would play your notes:

1. Legato-legato / gap (simulates the changing bow direction) Legato-Legato.

         C   -    D                                                                        D     -    C

2. Sustain-Legato / gap / Sustain-Legato

        C     -     D                   D      -    C

3. Détaché long-Legato /gap / Détaché long-Legato (faster play)

4. Détaché long-Legato /gap / Détaché long-Legato (even faster play)

5. sfz-fast Legato /gap / sfz-fast Legato (faster play more agressive)

5b sfz-fast Legato /gap / sfz-fast Legato (+1 Octave)

Take into account that we have a change of the articulation between every two notes! (Not with the first example) Quit a lot!

But when you listen to result it sounds quit good (real) as well.

Attention: Make sure that you always choose the legato articulation during the play of the single articulation so that you already get the legato sound between the single note and the following legato note.

Unfortunately I don't know the VSL-Presets I have my own presets.

Best

Beat

@MassMover said:

In general you got it right.

You do not necessarily have to overlap the notes on perf_leg, just the gap should be below 50ms (can be adjusted in VI Pro).

I think you should not overlap notes with Perf_rep.

If you have a note repeated only once (2 identical pitches in a row) during a legato phrase, you do not necessarily have to swich to a perf_rep articulation. The perf_leg have 2 alternations themselves, so there won't be a machinegun effect. The perf_rep patches are mostly used when there are at least 3 notes of the same pitch in a row.

I hadn't known about the 50 ms leeway or the 2 alternations provided by perf_legato. Thank you very much.

@Another User said:

... I never use samples because of their name ... only because of their sound....

I imagine that is the best procedure, and I hope to be able to do that some day. I am just starting out with VSL now, so I have a bit of learning to do before I even know how to find all the sounds it offers (regardless of their names). Thanks again. Be back tomorrow.

Hi Beat,

Very interesting variety in your demos. I've bookmarked your website for future reference. Thank you.

Now I'm working on a four-note, repeated figure: b, c, a, e, b, c, a, e, etc., all 16th notes (Ennio Morricone) and wondering is there a way to get sample-rotation, by somehow utilizing the perf_rep functionality? Is this as easy as playing the figure on a perf_rep patch and VI will rotate the samples automatically even though it's not all the same note? I'm not trusting my ears on this.

@BachRules said:

... is there a way to get sample-rotation, by somehow utilizing the perf_rep functionality?

I think it would be great if this wasn't a mystery. VSL, will you please help me understand how this product functions?

Hi BachRules,

You are right, you can simply trigger performance repetitions for this. Did you watch the video tutorial on Performance Repetitions yet (also works with the "normal" Vienna Instruments, last video on this page)?

Best,

Paul

@Paul said:

... You are right, you can simply trigger performance repetitions for this.

Thanks for the info.

I hadn't watched the VI PRO videos, having only VI-normal. I just watched it, but it's about working with the row of 9 red dots in VI PRO, and there's no row of red dots in VI-normal, so I don't see how I could do anything described in that video. ?

Hi again, 

My bad, I overlooked that there is no way to deactivate certain repetition notes in VI, that only works in VI PRO. But the repetition patches can be played back as they are in VI. 

Best, 

Paul

Ok. Thanks again.

@Beat Kaufmann said:

Attention: Make sure that you always choose the legato articulation during the play of the single articulation so that you already get the legato sound between the single note and the following legato note.

Are you saying that if I play Detache-Legato, what I will hear will actualy be Detache-Legato transition note-Legato? As opposed to hearing Detache-Legato Starting Note.

If so, then that is very cool! I had just assumed that when you switched to a legato articulation, that the first note played would be the "starting note" of that articulation, then the rest of the notes would have the "transition notes" played between them. Have I underestimated the power of VSL?

Thanks for all of your very informative posts Beat!

Michael

@Beat Kaufmann said:

Attention: Make sure that you always choose the legato articulation during the play of the single articulation so that you already get the legato sound between the single note and the following legato note.

Are you saying that if I play Detache-Legato, what I will hear will actualy be Detache-Legato transition note-Legato? As opposed to hearing Detache-Legato Starting Note.

Yes assuming that you don't leave too big a gap between the notes. FWIW if you actually want a start note, play the detache note short, hold down the sustain pedal (to sustain the detache to its full length) and you'll get a start note afterwards, instead of one with the legato transition.

DG

@mschmitt said:

Have I underestimated the power of VSL?

Indeed, you did!

The legato Articulation connects two notes with a certain "crossing sound". You can hear fingers, valves and of course the special sound between the change of two notes.

These Legato Sounds are making VSL so real sounding. Normally this "two-note-connecting-sound" is triggered when the gap between two notes are smaller than 50ms.

So I believe you got it the right way: You can start with Sustain change to legato play then the legato articulation with no gap between the sustain tone and the legato tone and you will get:

Sustain - "connection sound" - Legato-Articulation.

So you are able to start a group of 4 legato notes with another starting note for giving an accent: sfz-legato-legato-legato ...

And you will have the legato-feeling also between sfz and the following legato note...

Listen to this example (Handel Violinsonata). The "Legato Articulation" would often be too weak for all the starting notes - specially with the second and fast part of the piece..

As you said: Cool!!!

Best Beat

@DG said:

FWIW if you actually want a start note, play the detache note short, hold down the sustain pedal (to sustain the detache to its full length) and you'll get a start note afterwards, instead of one with the legato transition.

I think I understand what you are saying DG, but let me verify. Are you saying to force a start note, play a detache note but don't send a note off message for it -> switch to a legato patch -> send note on for new note which will be a "starting note"  for the legato patch?

I think there was another thread about starting notes recently, and you offered the suggestion to add a button to VI that would force a start note to play. I think this would be great if you could assign it to a cc button and when ever VI recieves an ON for it AND the next note played belongs to a performance patch, it would force a start note. This would be handy for both playing live and for editing in a DAW.

In the orchestra violins, patch "Vl-14_perf-rep_leg-sl", I'm not understanding why "leg" is part of the name, since it doesn't act legato in any way? Is it legato in some way I'm overlooking?

Hi, 

legato means "connected", and we called the slow performance repetitions with long repeated notes legato repetitions (faster: portato repetitions, fastest: staccato repetitions).

Best,

Paul 

I hear the speed difference. My confusion was from the absence of a continuous-pitch transition from one note to the next, like I'm used to in the regular 'legato' patches. Thanks for explaining.