Hybrid Reverb Output Level Doesn't show true output when loading a new patch

[Mahlon]

I've noticed that the Vienna Hybrid Reverb presets usually need a little boost to the output -- around 4db to keep the same level as the signal before going through the reverb.

Many times I'll test out patches back to back, loading one, listen, then load another, etc. If I change the output slider to +4 db for a patch and then load another patch, the output slider remains at +4db for the new patch but the actual sound is really at 0 db. Is this a bug? Shouldn't the slider jump back to 0 db to show the true output of the new patch?

Thanks,
Mahlon

P.S. Or is this the best way to deal with gain in the first place? Should I be raising the Dry and Wet signals instead of changing the Output?

[civilization 3]

Well, I've never touched the output fader. TBH it seems an odd statement (as though you're mixing with your eyes: 'to keep the same level as', is there a musical point to that?), the reverb needing that kind of a boost.

So, yeah, I would say as a general statement that's doing too much, I believe the wet, dry, early and late levels do the trick.

[jasensmith]

@Mahlon said:

 P.S. Or is this the best way to deal with gain in the first place? Should I be raising the Dry and Wet signals instead of changing the Output?

 

Are you using the Hybrid for a single instrument or as an overall reverb for the entire piece?

Generally, I use the hybrid as a mastering reverb, in which case, just plug the Multiband Limiter after the Hybrid and adjust the levels in the Multiband accordingly.

[Mahlon]

There's a significant attenuation at the output of the reverb when I apply one of VSL presets (using Hybrid as an insert by the way). Raising the output slider just brings the whole signal level back up, right? It doesn't only raise the reverb level by itself. I assumed that's why the output is there. But I don't know.

How do you account for the gain loss? If you're just wanting to use a preset, I mean.

Thanks for the help,
Mahlon

[Mahlon]

Thanks jasensmith,

I'm using it both as an insert on some stems and on the Master Out in different situations. I had assumed the output slider was there to make up for the gain loss when dry is not set to 100%, as most of the VSL presets are not.

Mahlon

[civilization 3]

Well, I think there is no attenuation per se, just that the presets simply do not feature wet or dry, or anything at 0dB. Think about why that is!
I'm using generally a 'main room' and things sent to the channel HR resides in, and I don't tend to bring those, or ER/AR faders up all the way, myself. I go mighty wet at times with it, but I doubt I've ever brought that much level on any of the four controls. And I don't send at 0dB that often, either. I have done but I'm keeping a dry-ish room and there are numerous considerations. More typically I automate the wet and the AR. This is where it's at, I assure you.

[civilization 3]

@Mahlon said:

I had assumed the output slider was there to make up for the gain loss when dry is not set to 100%, as most of the VSL presets are not.

This is a misconception, if you want dry to be 100%, put it at 100%. This whole thing of 'gain loss' is not relevant. I don't know where that notion comes from.

Think about why the presets, which were created by experts, do not have the levels all the way up.

[Mahlon]

Thanks for your help. Maybe (probably) I'm using incorrect terminology. Initally, I was trying to just understand a technical aspect of the output slider's function and whether it is working as it should when changing presets. Then there's also the conceptual/practical workflow you are mentioning.

So, as to the workflow question, here's a simple example of a situation where I must not understand the function of the output slider (this is a different problem from the technical question I asked in the first post about the output slider showing a different value than what is being heard): Say I have a bunch of stems which have been mixed to the correct levels without reverb. I insert Hybrid into an output buss and send the stems to that bus. I load one of VSL's presets into Hybrid. If I leave it as is, the final output signal is reduced by about 3 dbs. Now, I was thinking that the way to make up for this is to raise the output slider about 3 dbs. But you're saying that 's not what the output slider is for? How would you compensate for the loss of dbs? I don't want to raise the main output and I don't want to change any of the stems, groups, busses or what have you.

Remember, this is the most basic example just to show what I'm talking about.

Thanks, again.

Mahlon

[jasensmith]

@Mahlon said:

 I insert Hybrid into an output buss and send the stems to that bus. I load one of VSL's presets into Hybrid. If I leave it as is, the final output signal is reduced by about 3 dbs. Now, I was thinking that the way to make up for this is to raise the output slider about 3 dbs. 

As long as you're not clipping anywhere, i don't think there is anything wrong with doing this but remeber you are raising the gain of the processed signal, not that there is anything wrong with that.  Be careful when you get to mixing/mastering as you may not give yourself much head room when adjusting this slider.

Personally, I like to keep all of my levels at, or as close to but not exceed 0db as possible.  Which is why I like to plug the multi-band limiter in to the master bus so that i can increase or decrease particular bands without compromising dynamics as you would with a compressor.

Clear as mud???[8-)] 

[Mahlon]

Thanks. That's very clear. I keep my signals peaking for individual tracks at about -15 dB. Final output peaks about -6 dB. Appreciate the help on understanding this.

Now, to the other part my first post. Is the output slider functioning correctly when I set the slider to 2dB using one preset, then after loading a new preset -- the slider remains at 2dB, but the ouput slider's output is actual at unity?

Mahlon