Hi Cyril, glad you found your culprit. I just wanted to say that the New World Symphony is hardly a Big Boy test - that is for such workstation as everybody is talking about in this thread. Maybe in 5.1, I don't know... However, as a symphonic score, this symphony is nothing special in terms of power requirements.. I would be very interested in your results with something like The Planets, The Rite of Spring, Chout, etc.

Hi Errikos,

The New world symphony is very heavy as all tremelos are done with notes !

If you want, send me a Logic file or a Midi file to test

For the moment I have to stay with my iMac so really I am not that bothered at the moment to send you a file. Maybe when I am about to upgrade I'll send you one of my own massive scores...

I don't understand your point though. I thought there were tremolo-patches available in the library? In any case - and for your benefit (like I said I am not in a position to buy a new computer) - I would suggest you find MIDI files of the scores I proposed and test the busiest sections. Believe me, Dvorak's tremolandi don't begin to compare.

Incidentally, is it also your opinion that the new Mac Pros are only for graphic artists and not worth the price?

Hi Errikos 

> For the moment I have to stay with my iMac so really I am not that bothered at the moment to send you a file. Maybe when I am about to upgrade I'll send you one of my own massive scores...

can somebody else send me a massive score 

> I don't understand your point though. I thought there were tremolo-patches available in the library?

The midi file I use does not know that there are tremolo-patches available in the library,  I use a raw file !

>In any case - and for your benefit (like I said I am not in a position to buy a new computer) - I would suggest you find MIDI files of the scores I proposed and test the busiest sections. Believe me, Dvorak's tremolandi don't begin to compare.

when you have all the string section playing "des quart de croches", with tempo going up to 240 you can see the CPU getting used in Logic in the red

> Incidentally, is it also your opinion that the new Mac Pros are only for graphic artists and not worth the price?

I will make a responce of "normands" "peut être bien que oui peut être bien que non "

Its a moderate yes and no, the 12 core 2010 = to the 8 core 2013

There was 12 core 2010 on the refurb at 5 ??? $

The gain between 8 core 2013 and the 12 core 2013 is 17 % if my memory is good

On my Macpro I have 4 x screens !, I will not go back to work with one screen with VSL and my 100 instrument templates

Apple shoud introduce a Macpro with cheap graphic card for users that are not in the film industry and that do not need 4K

So you can get the 8 core 2013 at around 6K$, so it is not such a bad price.

The problem is Intel as the 12 core proc is at  $2,749.99 ( Intel 2013 is Revenue of $52.7 Billion, Net Income of $9.6 Billion Generates $21 Billion in Cash from Operations)

Intel is having almost the monopoly so it is dictating the prices !

Errikos or William

Can you check if the score is ok :

Rite of Spring

1. Adoration of the Earth (323k) Dario Galimberti
2. The sacrifice (273k) Dario Galimberti

Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring (Sacre du Printemps) - Part 1 of 4 - was performed by Jay Bacal on a single 16GB quad-core Vista 64bit PC computer using only the virtual instrument software from the Vienna Symphonic Library.

So you dont need so much power for this file!

@Cyril said:

The problem is Intel as the 12 core proc is at  $2,749.99 ( Intel 2013 is Revenue of $52.7 Billion, Net Income of $9.6 Billion Generates $21 Billion in Cash from Operations)

Intel is having almost the monopoly so it is dictating the prices !

@Cyril said:

Errikos or William

Can you check if the score is ok :

Rite of Spring

1. Adoration of the Earth (323k)  Dario Galimberti
2. The sacrifice (273k)  Dario Galimberti

I have read this on: http://www.classicalmidiconnection.com/stravinsky.html Uploaded on Mar 15, 2009

Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring (Sacre du Printemps) - Part 1 of 4 - was performed by Jay Bacal on a single 16GB quad-core Vista 64bit PC computer using only the virtual instrument software from the Vienna Symphonic Library.

So you dont need so much power for this file!

I looked at The Sacrifice on Sibelius from MIDI. The score looks mostly ok as a transcription from MIDI, meaning it's more or less there in terms of pitch (excepting some notes out of range), but with no articulations or dynamics - I don't know whether those should show in notation-from-MIDI, perhaps they are available on piano-roll lanes and CC information when one opens the same file in Logic.

However, on principle, if all of Stravinsky's notation goes into the simulation - as I presume it did in Jay's version - and that computer you mentioned was able to accommodate it, it should fly through Dvorak's score like it was a Satie miniature. It just makes musical sense. 

I agree with Daryl in that Apple designed the trash bin with graphics people in mind, who don't really need to "hang" anything off the computer in order to work. It would be nice for them to have considered us as well, perhaps bring out the wonderful Cube out again, something to which we could add components. And yes, a bloody DVD-drive to boot! Why should we clutter the desk with an external unit or two (almost everybody has two)? DVDs and CDs are not obsolete yet. Unless it is going to take them another 5-10 years to update the chassi again...

While we're at it, is it clock speed that is priority, number of cores, RAM, or what is the best combination/hierarchy thereof, for people who work from notation to simulation - think big 40-staves (not tracks) scores with 2-3 voices per staff.

Errikos,

If Jay Bacal has manage to play the Rite on spring with a 16GB quad-core Vista 64bit PC computer, I am not going to spend time putting on my Mac

I can tell you that the Dvorak piece was not plaing on a 16GB quad-core Mac

Give me a more heavy score to try

I corresponded with Jay Bacal on The Rite of Spring performance and he told me he had to do it in several passes freezing audio as that computer could never do it all in real time.  The Rite is gigantic in its demands for articulations and tracks, far beyond normal symphonic orchestration, because it first of all has a very large orchestra with larger than normal numbers, and pushes each instrument to limits not used by anyone except Mahler, R. Strauss, Schoenberg and other more recent composers. 

However Cyril you are completely right about the Dvorak not playing either on that power of computer, which is more like a bare minimum for modest orchestrations if you are using VSL and MIR. 

Hi William

Good to know that Jay had to do it in several pass. I will take Jay's files on VSL site and put it in Logic.

I will keep you informed

@William said:

I would use a Mac Pro as the slave (if it is the new one) since it is doing the hardest work of playing back samples and by all accounts is awesome for multi-processing.  It should be maxed out in RAM in order to use a lot of instruments in MIR.  It would make no sense to use it for controlling an older PC - that would be exactly opposite of what you should do.  Though if you had a third computer, that older PC could be a good secondary slave.  The controlling computer has the least CPU intensive work to do.  Once you use a big orchestral template with MIR, you will need the closest equivalent of a "super computer" you can get to handle the actual playback.

Maybe I didn't explain what I was hoping to do very clearly. I wasn't asking which computer, the New macpro OR the HP workstation, would be best used as a master/slave configuration. I was wonder if there was a way to use BOTH computers for sample playback, one with the sequencer (Sibelious, Logic X) and the other with MIR Pro but BOTH playing back samples. Also the "old pc" is an HP Z800 Workstation with TWO quad core processors equaling 8 cores running at 3.2 mh sec. The Z800 has 12 slots for RAM that can hold up to 192 gigs of RAM. The samples will be held on two large SSD drives RAID 0. Currently my new Macpro is the SINGLE processor 4 core. The new Mac Pro's still cannot equal the maximum RAM amount of the HP. I'm just wondering if the Vienna software allows Master/slave BOTH playing back samples

You cannot run Logic on your Z800 except if you want to go in the hasle of the Hackintosh

So your master must be a MAC.

You could put VSL and MIR on the slave (Z800) and put the other player on the new Macpro.

If you want to have MIR on both computer you need to buy 2 licenses

The New Macpro is too new, we have very few feed back

@Rob Welsh said:

if there was a way to use BOTH computers for sample playback

yes - VEPRO does that. just run VEPRO server on the sequencing machine. you can connect to the local instance then.

Thanks everyone for your input.

@Rob Welsh said:

if there was a way to use BOTH computers for sample playback

yes - VEPRO does that. just run VEPRO server on the sequencing machine. you can connect to the local instance then.

CM,  So with VEPRO running on both the slave and master machine, I can route VEPRO instruments from the sequencing machine to the slave that holds MIRPRO?

To maximize the useage of both those computers, since they are both relatively powerful and therefore valuable for sample playback,  it would make sense to use a third smaller computer strictly for sequencing and audio mixing.  Then you can use the other two as dedicated sample and MIR playback exclusively.

@Rob Welsh said:

I can route VEPRO instruments from the sequencing machine to the slave that holds MIRPRO?

no, you cannot route from VE PRO an master into MIR PRO on slave (and then route back to the master), but you could run also MIR PRO (or MIR PRO 24) on both machines.

@Rob Welsh said:

I can route VEPRO instruments from the sequencing machine to the slave that holds MIRPRO?

no, you cannot route from VE PRO an master into MIR PRO on slave (and then route back to the master), but you could run also MIR PRO (or MIR PRO 24) on both machines.

Rob - Why these guys are talking in circles and not answering your question... it's like politicians... Anyway..

Yes! With VEPro you can run samples off of both of your machines and the MacPro would make a GREAT host in this situation for two reasons. You use Logic, and the very fast PCI 3 SSD performance. 

I do something very similar, but in a slightly different situation. I'm running a single computer (a 3,1 MacPro, 32GB RAM, internal and eSATA SSD RAIDs, etc..). I run my string, brass and wind samples in VEPro and my percussion samples, piano, and other stuff in my DAW (Digital Performer 8). 

I also run the plugin version of MIR Pro with DP for the samples in my DAW. So I have my DAW, MIR Pro, and VEPro with samples being hosted in both with Konatkt and VSL libs. I also have audio event plugins going to the 32 bit version of the VEPro 32-bit server and Event Audio plugins from DP to VEPro. I've started using the VST versions though. Not sure if I'm gaining anything, but it's running better than when I used the AU version, but I also made some other changes at the same time, so I don't know.

That way, for me, it spreads things out really well among the 8 cores and I get a very optimized performance. I use a lot of Kontakt libs (which have the stuck note problem when too many voices are being piped through, and when the buffers aren't set right). But, I'm really surprised how hard I'm pushing my 2008 MP now.

After I moved some of my samples to my DAW for it to handle (to give VEPro and the I/O between DP and VEPro a break, plus tweaked buffers and multicore support in Kontakt, VEPro and DP), I was able to get about another 30% gain in performance.

I know that's not exactly your situation but the theory is the same. Using you MacPro to host every sample that your PC slave can't handle is a great idea and it will work once you tweak it right. Use the same theory about spreading workload among cores, but consider your DAW just another part of the core needing equation. That's how I think about it and it works. VEPro is using about 15GBs of real mem, and DP (to keep it snappy) is using about 8GBs or so. Keep your host at about 50% - 70% of the workload to your slave and it will work.

If I were you this is what i would try. MacPro as host with MIR Pro AND VEPro running on the MacPro (get away with as much as you can get away with, while Logic is still running smooth), and then cram as much as you can on your PC slave. I envy your situation!

And guys, I don't want to get in a PC vs Mac argument, but some of you just don't get the new MacPro. You say you have a PC that is as good as or better than the new MacPro, and ask "why build a portable workstation that's not portable?" Really?

Apple never said anything about it being portable. They just moved the expansion outside. It's a brilliant move. Keeps heat out. Thunderbolt 3 is fast, it's a serial connection. and they have SIX ports on THREE controllers (or is it two?). That's 36 potential expansion devices. The SSDs are on PCI3.0. Really? You have your SSDs on either PCI 3 or TB2? I'm sure your PC is fast, and it's a bit cheaper but the new MacPro, when set up right and used for the right apps and reasons is a screamer. It may not be tailored made for a VEPro environment (video card still unnecessary, but everything else is perfect).

Yeah, it's way expensive. And I don't need the graphics. (and sometimes wonder if I want Xeons), but they're fast enough that the extra physical cores actually work (if you have the RAM). It's all bout optimization. Actually they should come with 128GBs of RAM. That's one let down I see. If I were buying a new MacPro, I would get 64GBs of RAM, the 1GB boot SSD, and the 8 core most likely. Either the 6 or the 8.

It's a great system either as a host or a slave if Rob is going to use Logic and host some of the samples from the MacPro as host.

@thenightwatch said:

Rob - Why these guys are talking in circles and not answering your question... it's like politicians... Anyway..

Politician?   No, I was trying to help based upon my own approach which uses multiple slaves.  

Note:  when giving help - don't insult the other people who were also trying to do so. 

William is right, I have told you "The New Macpro is too new, we have very few feed back"

It a good advise to put VSL on the slave with MIR and to put all other plug-ins(k5...)on the master and to route the audio of K5 to your slave.

If that does not work you can do the contrary

If you want to have VSL/MIR on both you need to buy 2 x Mir Licenses

To my knowledge you cannot do (CM can you confirm)

Local Logic -> local VSL--> local Logic ----> VSL/MIR remote-------> Logic Local ---> Speakers

You can do :

Local Logic -> local VSL/MIR   --> local Logic----------------------/-------> Speakers

                   -> VSL/MIR remote--> local Logic --------------------/