@BachRules said:

How do the VI strings compare with EWQL Hollywood Strings?

Here you can listen to some additional VSL strings examples. I would recommend Wagner (for DS Violins, Solo & Orchestral Strings), Dvorak & Bach (both for Solo + Orchestral Strings combination) and Mozart (for period performance style chamber string orchestra sound (smaller sections, very limited use of vibrato), made with DS Violins, Solo & Chamber Strings).

@Casiquire said:

Agreed Noldar, I never ever "write for the samples" with VSL.  Unless there's something truly unusual to the point of being slightly experimental, VSL can do it all.

I still dream of being able to do Helmut Lachenmann's Kontrakadenz or Mouvement (vor der Erstarrung) with VSL one day... [<:o)]

Not to play Dog Pile on EWQL but the reason I never went with them for orchestral samples is because they seemed to me to be a one trick pony in that regard. If all you do is big in-your-face Hollywood styled film scores EWQL will, at least, get you there. But it won't get you anywhere else.  That's why VSL is a superior product.  You can do big Hollywood scores, small intimate chamber pieces with various setting arrangements, experimental avant-garde stuff, Pop music, Jazz, whatever...

The reason for this is, of course, their studio where they record everything dry and pure enabling you to create your own sonic environments.

VSL's software is so much more intuitive and user friendly.  As Noldar pointed out, you shouldn't have to be composing for the samples.  Even VSL's standard libraries will take you a long way.

I have EWQL products but unfortunately I have to hose my system down with roach spray before I use it because their Play engine is so buggy.  At least on my system.

Speaking of 'PLAY' let me tell you-AaaaH!!!!!!  lk;jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjkkkkkkkkkkklj';;jlklklklklklklklklklklk;jlkjiiiiiiiiiiiiiii0000000000000

                    [jasensmith slumps over the keyboard unconscious as Nick Phoenix shoots him in the neck with a tranqualizer dart]  

the question you need to ask yourself when comparing orchestral sample libraries is - could this do the complete Rite of Spring?  This is the single most demanding orchestral piece in history, along with some of Mahler's symphonies and a few other less known works.  Would EWQL be merely a digital travesty of such a work, with workarounds every few bars?  I can answer that for you - yes it would.  

That library could never even begin to do such demanding music.  It is dependent on being used to do relatively mindless film scores.  Especially with the Play engine which is non-existent as an interface compared to Vienna Ensemble's elegance, let alone the samples themselves. 

Now, of course you may be thinking. "But I want to do mindless film scores!"  Yes, of course you may.  But you need to remember - VSL can do those also, but a thousand times better than the libraries that are limited to those.  The VSL version of the Rite of Spring is actually a good performance compared even to live orchestras.  There is no other sample library that can do that.   VSL's success is based upon a uniform system of methodical sampling of all instruments that truly covers the full expressive range of each.  And the way those samples have been incorporated into the musically oriented interface of Vienna Ensemble is a crucial element.   There simply is no comparison right now between VSL and any other sample library.  The combination of the VSL sample recordings themselves, VE, VI, and MIR are unmatched.

Seriously or is it a joke? EWQL has really banned you from their forums? I've always thought they were pretty bad but... that is really... really bad sign for a "BIG" company... [^o)]

Most commercial forums do ban members who are particularly vocal.  It's their way of filtering out people who have some unreasonable grudge against them or people who spread misinformation about them, etc.  EWQL's forum is sort of the worst example possible though.  They deleted comments that I've posted before despite the fact that my tone was very pleasant and I wasn't even saying anything bad about a product, just asking a question.  VSL on the other hand...the mere fact that this thread is still open despite so much discussion about a competitor sort of shows the great attitude the VSL team has, because many other forums don't allow this.

It's normal that VSL does not close this discussion. QLSO is so bad !

I was one of first user of QLSO in France, We had to wait one year to be able to use it. Doug Rogers hate me because I was reporting all the bugs I found on the forum.

I left QLSO's machine gun staccato, to the beautifull staccato of VSL. Same for legato, up and down bow ......

ahem guys, as you know VSl is closing threads and removing posts on very rare occasions ...

but also please consider this is a VSL user forum and though discussing the pros and cons of this or that library are welcome, the thread should not turn into bashing a competitor's product or service please.

otherwise it might be closed ;-)

Nice to read this words... before I buy VSL I wanted to buy EWQO... I was attracted by their big-sound and their incredible deals (75% off!) but in hindsight I prefer quality over quantity (although I was still hesitant).. well... to read these things... I can not be more pleased with my choice!

to cm:

Thanks for your very tolerant post.

I'd prefer to turn this thread into praise for the VSL team, who constantly post helpful answers, at any time of the day or night even.

For me, VSL's support of customers has been spectacular. When there are bug reports, feedback and feature suggestions, all are dealt with swiftly, usually with a speedy response and often a speedy update.

Great products, great people....

@BachRules said:

And now EastWest has banned me from their forum for admitting one of their products has a show-stopping bug

At least you didn't get shot in the neck with a tranquilizer dart[|-)]

Ouch! that still hurts!!![:P]

I looked at that thread and it seems like BachRules kept mouthing off after being banned.  I was impressed.

I have had a similar experience with the East West Choral product - Symphonic Choirs- and had to stop using it because they would not keep up with Steinberg-for Cubase 4.0- on bug fixes and updates. I was upset because there was so much promise to the software with being able to shape actual words into the mix. I loved the oohs and ahhs and other simple sounds because I found them very exhilerating. 

VSL support is vastly superior (not that there are not issues) and I always receive courteous and prompt replies. I have seen vitrolic complaints on this web site about VSL support (not from me, mind you) and many a person who said ugly things is still hanging about.

The cost of a beginning package from VSL- Special Edition Vol I and SE Vol 1 plus is $830. A comprable amount spent at EW would give you maybe what looks like more but . . . . then there is the crappy customer service which negates that. I'm not sure their orchestral sounds are equal to VSL.

Glad I took the time to go over to EW website as they now say that Steinburg has fixed the problems with Play. [H]

Cheers, Ray from Southfield, Michgan

My experience with VSL compared to anyone else, not just EW, is that the products themselves are of unrivaled stability upon release.  Tech support must have a lighter load by comparison.  Sure there might be some flaws as with any software but I see them so rarely, they must mostly get ironed out before release.  VSL is fantastic!  Nobody else has released such a huge quantity of consistent libraries, I'm sure they've found some kind of groove in their process by now.

Here is my take, for what it is worth.

I've been using EWQL for a long time, and I have never been tweeking the sound, which was excellent to begin with, out of the box.

I've been switching to VSL mainly because it offers a much larger amount of detail and realism.  I must confess that I'm still working hard to find with VSL the sound that I'm after.

I can't go back to EWQL because, short of the magnificent sound, the samples look like kid toys against the VSL ones, not enough detail, not enough control, and, agreed with others, no stability, no service, etc.

Yet I still use some EWQL samples to complement the VSL ones (for example, the FF staccato bass, adorable in EWQLSO), but after years of happiness using the VI interface, it feels like pain to return to Play.

That being said, again, I'm still struggling to find a way to make VSL sound sweet warm and cosy.  Solo strings are really ok to my ears, Orchestral strings a little less, and as to dimension strings, while I adore the sound (out of the box) of bass, cellos and altos, violins do cause me trouble certainly in conjunction with MIR which makes the trouble even worse : harshness and coldness.  No eqing seems to get me where I want.  My best take uptil now is to lower the wet/dry control in MIR to -70, and to replace the tail by an algorithmic reverb chosen for its warmth.  But then, the authenticity of the MIR space is lost. 

I would really like to understand why I can't reach the quality of the best demos of dimension strings.

Best regards.

Stephane.

EWQL products have a great timbre, such as the lush Hollywood strings, but Play is horrible. There's very little possibility to shape the instruments, so in practice I don't find them very useful -although they can be great fun to play with.

VSL libraries provide huge flexibility, and they don't come with heavily programmed ready-made "epicness", and it takes a little work to get the best out of them. When I first got Dimension Strings I thought I'd made a terrible mistake, until I realised that hammering out violin lines on a keyboard, without any regard for the way the original instrument was played, is the same as trying to reproduce bad violin playing.

EWQL can make you feel like a passenger, whereas VSL puts you in front of the steering wheel -and sometimes you can run yourself into a wall.

Another thing in VSL's favour is Vienna Instruments -it just works.