@noldar12 said:

(the use of MIR requires the purchase of VE Pro

This is not true anymore, I am using MIR with standard Ensemble, but MIR can work as VST plugin, so I am using it that way, much more flexibility and options than in VE Pro.

You are right, I had forgotten that.

And that brought to mind another possibility: MIR X, which could be a very viable and less expensive option to MIR Pro depending on goals.

Hi Avacade, figuring out the difference between all of the VSL products and bundles can be quite confusing. If you could tell us what type of music you would use the VSL libraries for, along with your current hardware and budget, several users here would be glad to chime in with suggestions on which products to look into.

You'll find the posters here very friendly and helpful. Good luck!

Michael

There's also a huge difference in price! For the whole VSL collection, one could almost buy a new car. I would have to be either rich (I am not) or a professional composer (again, I am not) to be able to justify the whole collection.

Don't get me wrong, I now have SE I and II, VEPro and VIPro, and I am very impressed with the samples and the software. I figure I have enough to start out with. VIPro is, as Paul mentions in one of the SE Videos, an instrument that one needs to learn how to play.I am just starting to get my head around that! It is a paradigm shift for me, that's for sure!

Again, as mentioned, it comes down to what you want to do with the orchestral samples. I doubt I'll be scoring films anytime soon, but want some quality orchestral sounds to blend into original compositions that are rock/progressive rock-oriented and the orchestral samples are colours on a palette that I will use in addition to things like Omnisphere, some IKMultimedia VIs, piano, and my primary instrument, the guitar. I expect that I will end up with the PLUS versions of the SE collections too, and possibly extend that with some of the string libraries, but my wife would probably divorce me if I wanted the whole shebang! [:D]

My two farthings,

Bombadil

@mschmitt said:

Hi Avacade, figuring out the difference between all of the VSL products and bundles can be quite confusing. If you could tell us what type of music you would use the VSL libraries for, along with your current hardware and budget, several users here would be glad to chime in with suggestions on which products to look into.

You'll find the posters here very friendly and helpful. Good luck!

Michael

@noldar12 said:

The best thing to do is to take a look at the included collections, and the sample content of each collection.

First, the full collections consist of two parts: standard and extended.  To get all the samples of the full libraries both parts need to be purchased.  The full collections have a large number of articulations that are not included in the SE libraries.  Also, the full collections have samples for every half-step, while the SE instruments have samples for every whole-step, and use transposed samples to fill in the missing half-steps.  In particular, the full libraries include many dynamics patches that can be of great use that the SE libraries do not have (generally, the dynamics patches are in the extended portion of the full libraries).

The SE collections use different terms compared to the full libraries.  For the SE libraries, instead of using "standard" and "extended" to describe that include additional articulations for the same instruments, in SE, the additional articulations are called "Plus".

As far as what to start with, it all depends on what you will be seeking to write, and/or the level you wish to start out at.  If you do start with SE, you will get a discount towards the "extended" portion of the full libraries.  It is not uncommon for people to start with SE, and as they become familiar with the VSL world to then start purchasing full libraries.  One common approach has been to buy SE 1, 2, and possibly 1 Plus and 2 Plus, and then add AP Strings for the first full library (or depending on main interest possibly the full chamber strings, or other strings library instead of AP Strings).

There are others, with more financial flexibility, who do start out with one of the large bundles of the full libraries.  In general purchasing both the standard and extended portion of the full libraries has major benefits, as the extended portion of the full libraries really help in creating more realistic sounding demos.

Whatever you do decide, once you get familiar with the basic free VI, adding VI Pro would be strongly suggested.  Also, many find either MIR Pro or 24 to be of great use (the use of MIR requires the purchase of VE Pro).  The Vienna Suite could be another possible option.

In any case, try to figure out as much in advance as possible, particularly what you wish to accomplish, as your writing and overall goals will help you determine what purchases make the most sense, and whether a large or more modest purchase is the best starting choice.

There is much to learn when starting in the VSL world, though IMO, the VSL sample world is outstanding and allows for great flexibility in one's writing styles.

Best wishes in figuring out what you need.  You will find many users on this site to be most helpful.

I can answer a few of your questions: I believe if you buy a standard "super package" you can buy individual extended libraries.

With regards to the SE and your budget, you will find the SE even with the "plus" libraries to be very watered down compared to the standard libraries. With regards to discounts, the purchase of SE "plus" libraries will give you a bit of a discount when you buy corresponding "extended" libraries, not the standard ones. So personally I wouldn't recommend going the SE route.

I'd listen to as many of the audio demos as you can, read the sample content of each library to see all of the articulations that are included, and be sure to check out the Dimension Brass and Strings as well as MIR.

If you want to get started right away learning how VSL products work, you could buy 1 or more of the single instruments to try out. They are priced very reasonably.

Given your goals and budget, I would agree with others, and suggest starting with full libraries, and not getting the SE package, as you will be able to afford a number of full libraries, and would likely soon want to replace the SE instruments with full ones.  Given the symphonic writing goals, getting the full libraries - both standard and extended portions - would be beneficial.  As for which libraries and/or packages to purchase that is another matter.  I don't know how VSL handles extended library purchases after buying a large standard bundle.  That would be worth having a VSL employee clarify.

Certainly, the Cube standard + extended, would provide you with all the key orchestral instruments (though relatively few muted strings), and could be a very viable option.  Given your budget, MIR Pro and the Vienna Suite would also be worth considering.

One other thing not discussed - and it probably is an area you are well covered in, but it is worth checking on - what sort of computer will you be using to run the libraries?

I disagree with ignoring SE editions and going directly for 5 grand library {Cube| and figure out that it is not suitable for someone who dont even know how this whole VSL thing works. I am strongly suggesting to go by SE route. You can do amazing sounding demos with them and lately buy those instruments collections you really need and want for your workflow. For example you may found that you dont need solo strings or chamber strings at all, but you will IMHO want Dim Brass or Strings. So SE gives you basic overview {and not unusable sound!}.

And one more thing, for beginner it can be harmful to buy very expensive package and try to run it all at mediocre computer. They relise very soon, that outstanding and expensive I7 with at least 32GB of Ram will be must and I am not even include MIR in this calculation!

@Avacade said:

Well, currently I have custom pc with i7 X940 @ 2.13~2.1 GHz (8 cpu) and.. 8g ram. If it's something that requires a better computer, please let me know about it as well.

8GB of ram is not enough if you want to go with big VSL collections. For SE it is acceptable. If you want implement also MIR, you really need 24GB minimum and for big collections running through MIR second computer for another computing power. I will really start with SE in your case. You soon realise that you have to invest thousands not only in VSL but as much also in computers [;)] VSL is very expensive hobby, but untouchable by other sound banks...

For the SE libraries, 8 gigs will be fine, but as already has been said 24 gigs is really the minimum for the full libraries plus MIR.  Note that if you use SSD's more samples can be loaded into RAM, as you can set lower buffers for any VSL library that streams from an SSD.

As for your i7 940x, again, for the SE libraries, you should be fine, but for large ensembles using lots of full libraries plus MIR Pro your computer would have definite limitations, even with increased RAM.  For smaller ensembles, though, you could possibly survive, but your current setup is underpowered for the type of writing you have described with the large number of full libraries you indicated you will be using, and the potential large number of tracks.  For streaming samples higher GHz is better, as the higher the frequency, the more samples you will be able to stream.  For effects and processing, in contrast, the number of cores will make a greater difference.  You will also need multiple hard drives to hold your libraries (SSDs preferred) in order to be able to stream more samples without dropouts.

OTOH, I am on a lesser system, using the older, and now obsolete, MIR SE with 24 gigs of RAM on an i7 930 (desktop, 2.8 GHz), and for what I do that works fine (total track count is limited to 32).  At such time as I am able to upgrade to MIR Pro, also getting a better computer would be very helpful.  For users who are more on the "power" side, Dietz has reported - for his own workflow and methods - getting roughly 100 instrument tracks using a 3930k i7, again YMMV.

Either that chip, or its replacement, the i7 4930k, would be strongly suggested for larger ensembles coupled with MIR Pro.  As for using multiple computers, there are different methods.  In VSL terms, some keep all VSL instruments and MIR on one computer and run their sequencer and whatever else on a lesser second computer.  Some others use multiple computers for VSL, using MIR Pro on one and MIR Pro 24 on another.  Again, it depends on how sample libraries you want to run from how many different companies and the simplicity/complexity of your overall setup.  If you will be going fairly strictly with VSL, you likely will be ok keeping all VSL libraries on one new computer (and keep using your existing computer for your sequencing software, and other tasks).

@noldar12 said:

For the SE libraries, 8 gigs will be fine, but as already has been said 24 gigs is really the minimum for the full libraries plus MIR.  Note that if you use SSD's more samples can be loaded into RAM, as you can set lower buffers for any VSL library that streams from an SSD.

As for your i7 940x, again, for the SE libraries, you should be fine, but for large ensembles using lots of full libraries plus MIR Pro your computer would have definite limitations, even with increased RAM.  For smaller ensembles, though, you could possibly survive, but your current setup is underpowered for the type of writing you have described with the large number of full libraries you indicated you will be using, and the potential large number of tracks.  For streaming samples higher GHz is better, as the higher the frequency, the more samples you will be able to stream.  For effects and processing, in contrast, the number of cores will make a greater difference.  You will also need multiple hard drives to hold your libraries (SSDs preferred) in order to be able to stream more samples without dropouts.

OTOH, I am on a lesser system, using the older, and now obsolete, MIR SE with 24 gigs of RAM on an i7 930 (desktop, 2.8 GHz), and for what I do that works fine (total track count is limited to 32).  At such time as I am able to upgrade to MIR Pro, also getting a better computer would be very helpful.  For users who are more on the "power" side, Dietz has reported - for his own workflow and methods - getting roughly 100 instrument tracks using a 3930k i7, again YMMV.

Either that chip, or its replacement, the i7 4930k, would be strongly suggested for larger ensembles coupled with MIR Pro.  As for using multiple computers, there are different methods.  In VSL terms, some keep all VSL instruments and MIR on one computer and run their sequencer and whatever else on a lesser second computer.  Some others use multiple computers for VSL, using MIR Pro on one and MIR Pro 24 on another.  Again, it depends on how sample libraries you want to run from how many different companies and the simplicity/complexity of your overall setup.  If you will be going fairly strictly with VSL, you likely will be ok keeping all VSL libraries on one new computer (and keep using your existing computer for your sequencing software, and other tasks).

You should be fine with that chip as outlined above (very high end users will go dual xeon, but that gets very expensive and is more than most people need).  Multiple SSDs would be advised as it is best to stream large numbers of samples from multiple hard drives.

As far as which computer is best, VSL staff have commented that their products perform better on PC than on Mac.

No offense here, but some demos can sound better and should be upgraded  {especially Dim Brass demos}...

Hi Avacade, to summarise:

Vienna Superpackage
www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/1797/1883/1881/305.htm
The full works: 24 complete collections comprising approx. 184 instruments and sections, chromatically sampled, all velocity layers, 871.5 GB. Standard library € 5,990, Extended library € 4,490, Full library (= standard + extended) € 10,480.

Symphonic Cube
www.vsl.co.at/en/211/442/1796/1885/1884/216.htm
10 complete collections comprising approx. 130 instruments and sections, chromatically sampled, all velocity layers, 548 GB. Standard library € 2,690, Extended library € 3,290, Full library (= standard + extended) € 5,980.

(Standard library = basic articulations, Extended library = more advanced articulations. Extended libraries are not available separately; having bought and registered a Standard library, you pay extra to unlock the Extended samples.)

Special Edition Complete Bundle
www.vsl.co.at/en/211/261/2066/2090/1776.htm
All 6 Special Edition volumes comprising approx. 109 instruments and sections, sampled at tone intervals, reduced velocity layers, fewer articulations than the complete collections, approx. 130 GB installed. € 1,695 (download) or € 1,735 (on USB stick)

(The Special Edition volumes are slimmed-down, budget versions of the complete collections. Though they are less intensively sampled and don’t have all the articulations found in the collections, they still sound very good indeed.)

These are the SE Bundle instruments not found in the Symphonic Cube:

• Solo violin, viola, cello & double bass ‘con sordino’ versions
• Chamber strings (6 violins, 4 violas, 3 cellos, 2 double basses) con sordino versions
• Appassionata strings (20 violins, 14 violas, 12 cellos, 10 double basses)
• Bassoon 2, Bass Flute, Heckelphone, Contrabass Clarinet, Oboe d’Amore, Basset horn
• Trumpet in Bb, Cornet, Flugelhorn, Alto Trombone, Euphonium, Fanfare Trumpets (6)
• Alto, Tenor, Baritone, Soprano and Bass saxophones
• Bösendorfer Imperial Grand Piano, Vienna Konzerthaus Organ, Harpsichord
• Electric guitar (Overdrive), Concert guitar
• Vienna Choir

The Symphonic Cube has a much larger menu of miscellaneous percussion instruments than the SE Complete Bundle, including wood blocks, temple blocks, claves, cowbells, Roto toms, boobams, rock kit cymbals, gongs, bells, crotales, lithophone (small), log drum, waterphone, etc.

Since you are new to orchestral programming, I don’t think you should get sidetracked with high-end features like the MIR reverb engine; your system sounds more than adequate to get started. (N.B. To access more than 3GB of RAM, you need a 64-bit operating system.)

I would advise against going straight for the Superpackage: such an expensive, top-of-the-range product is overkill for a beginner, and you might end up not using half of it. The advantage of the Special Edition Complete Bundle is that it supplies a very good spread of the huge Vienna sample database, enabling you to get familiar with the instruments without spending a fortune. You can upgrade the instruments you use the most to their full collection status later, but in the meantime you can make *great* demos with the SE, which offers many playing styles (including the wonderful VSL ‘true legato’) and the fabulous Appassionata Strings.

All these libraries run exclusively on the Vienna Instrument. It takes a little time to figure out how the VI software works, and since you’ll be coming to terms with sequencing software at the same time, there’s a danger you could get bogged down in technicalities. My advice is to keep it simple and concentrate on what you want to do musically. If you get stuck, VSL’s educational videos are excellent, and there are also plenty of experienced Vienna users here who’ll be glad to help.

Apologies if I got any details wrong. Good luck!