@Sami Boman said:

I've been longing for some kind of solution that would allow me to load a specific articulation from all the players to a single cell. For example if I'd like to load dimension violins staccato patches of all the eight players to cell slots 1a-8a I have to pick them out one by one. So I'm wondering would it be possible to make some kind of a shortcut like by pressing down some key while loading the player 1 staccato to cell slot 1a the staccato patches of all the other players would automatically be loaded to the slots 2a-8a?

(I found it a bit hard to shape this question but I hope the point is understandable.)

I agree this is needed. I don't know if I'd want it implemented exactly as suggested by Sami, but I too have been struggling to manage the crazy number of patches and have found my setup time has increased astronomically for projects using dimension strings. I know there are VSL-made presets that have it all, but what happens when you want to be selective, or arrange things in a different or new way? You're stuck dragging hundreds and hundreds of little items into squares from a side menu that, quite unhelpfully, closes when you switch folders.

I've been going a bit insane with it. I spent several hours making my own set of presets one evening, only to realize that I hadn't thought of one articulation I might need. Redoing them took many more hours still. I need better tools for this! In fact, I would argue that each Dimension collection should have its own special version of VI Pro that simplifies many of these tedious operations into a simple GUI (for example, a single assignable parameter to change the number of players per voice, a single assignable parameter to change whether it's "regular" "open" or "force string," a velocity-fade style slider to change between vibrato and non-vibrato). All these things are completely possible to set up within VI Pro, they're just extremely unwieldy... thus, the special version idea. I don't know if VSL is working on this, but if you are, thank you in advance!!!

Hello, 

I understand your situation.

@clamnectar said:

I need better tools for this! In fact, I would argue that each Dimension collection should have its own special version of VI Pro that simplifies many of these tedious operations into a simple GUI (for example, a single assignable parameter to change the number of players per voice, a single assignable parameter to change whether it's "regular" "open" or "force string," a velocity-fade style slider to change between vibrato and non-vibrato).

You are right, there´s always room for improvement. And real improvement needs very good consideration. 

We have established the matrix system within one instance of our sample players, which let you arrange and switch between all kinds of setups (all the parameters you listed, actually) with a simple-keyswitch (alternatively, you can use Program Changes). 

To change the number of players per voice, check out the Auto-Voicing feature described on page 39 of the VI PRO Manual, assignable for each matrix!

Here´s what we do: We are working with the existing, very complete and consistently composed presets that Herb Tucmandl has added to each collection, and you know that you can always modify those (ideally, always the same way).

If you´re working with VI PRO, you should use the dedicated VI PRO presets, that are working with useful VI PRO features already assigned in the Basic View. 

Take advantage of the "Enabled/Disabled Cells" feature in VI PRO. The huge VI PRO presets come with disabled cells by default, and this way you also won´t miss an articulation (simply because you forgot that it is there, because you didn´t add it to your preset): 

Click on a cell, this will enable it (load the samples in the background).

Right-click on a matrix (in the matrix list to the left), you can "enable" the whole matrix.

In "Settings" (the icon left to the Basic/Advanved View), you can also enable the whole instance and find additional options (like "Force Enabled Cells"or "Enable Cells on MIDI Activity").

Please see the VI PRO Manual for more information. 

and check out the many video tutorials that also explain all the new features in detail.

Of course that should NOT keep you from creating your own presets, if you want to invest the time, but we do know how time-consuming it is to create a preset that fits your needs, for all instruments. 

The undocumented feature described above should help A LOT with this task. 

I am travelling quite a lot for VSL, talking to many users, and we´re also answering a lot of questions about Vienna Instruments (PRO) with our Support Team. From what I can tell, 95% of our VI PRO users don´t even scratch the surface of this powerful tool!

Please feel free to ask us questions, we´ll be happy to help with your setup. If you want to create unique presets, I strongly believe that our video tutorials will be a great source of inspiration!

Best,

Paul 

@Paul said:

With the stand-alone version (only!) the following shortcuts can be applied:

"ctrl + alt + w" (WIN) and "command + alt + w" (OS X ) will open a dialog window which enables to exchange instruments with matching patch names.

For example P1 substituted with P2 will reload all patches with player 2 instead of player 1.

Thanks for this useful tip Paul - however, I can't see how it speeds up loading all 8 players' patches into a single player? As far as I can see, you still have to load them one at a time. Since using eight players together is such a central function, maybe VSL would consider adding a 'combi' feature to the Dimension Strings libraries? The combis would be exactly the same as the patches, but containing all the players rather than just one. The browser tabs could be expanded to PRESET / MATRIX / COMBI / PATCH. I don't think this approach would work for any other VSL collection, but it makes sense with DS strings.

Having said that, it only takes a minute or so to create an 8-player set-up, so it doesn't strike me too much of a hardship to have to do it one player at a time! The set-up can then be saved and quickly recalled, you only have to program it once. As for the point about browser windows automatically closing when you click on the next one, that confused me at first, but with the extra layers of sub-folders in DS I think it would be a chore to have to close each window separately.

Here is a very quick and easy solution for building custom matrices: 

start with an empty matrix (which will become your custom matrix) and load also a factory matrix which holds the amount of players you need. (all or any subdivsion). This factory Matrix is just used as resource and any articulation you need can be copied and pasted to your custom matrix. with cell copy/paste. (right mouseclick on any cell and select copy)

With this workflow you don't have to search through the patch browser and you can built a very complex custom matrix within less than a minute.

best

Herb

There you go, easy when you know how - thanks Herb.

Thanks for the tips, and I do realize these options are there. And I acknowledge that I probably have a thing or two to learn about VI Pro. I just think, when you're getting into these bigger and more complex collections, maybe some custom tools would be extremely valuable to streamline things, so there is less time sepnt on technical fussing and more on music making. As is, they're really straining the usability of VI Pro.

I've had some issues with loading 8 player presets and eventually resorted to the technique Herb described but what would be really useful would be 8 player patches. This would be more elegant than having to load a preset then copy paste individual patches. The patches exist in the presets it would just be great to be able to access them directly from the load menu on an individual basis.

I did a feature request for this last year!

http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/p/33208/209347.aspx#209347

Julian

Cell copy/paste doesn't work when you need cell xfades that aren't in the original matrix setups.

If it was easy for VSL to provide a complete set of 8-way patches for DS Violins, I suspect they would have done it already. It would involve at the very least a redesign of the Patch browser, and for that reason, I feel it may well not happen, though I would welcome it if it did. In the meantime, I don't think it's a gross inconvenience for users to have to create their own presets - people who do this stuff for a living are used to that kind of programming job.

@Conquer said:

If it was easy for VSL to provide a complete set of 8-way patches for DS Violins, I suspect they would have done it already. It would involve at the very least a redesign of the Patch browser, and for that reason, I feel it may well not happen, though I would welcome it if it did. In the meantime, I don't think it's a gross inconvenience for users to have to create their own presets - people who do this stuff for a living are used to that kind of programming job.

It probably won't happen but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be useful. Of course it would require a redesign, but it's probably a very small task compared to recording, editing, sequencing, and testing the million+ samples in the DS collection, and it would make them more of a joy to use. 

@clamnectar said:

it's probably a very small task compared to recording, editing, sequencing, and testing the million+ samples in the DS collection, and it would make them more of a joy to use. 

I agree. But I would think finishing the DS collection would be the number one priority for VSL at this stage.

I don't argue with any of the extreme efficiency workflow ideas - all that is fine if implemented -  but with Dimension Strings something I have been doing is building my own custom matrices as templates and that involves listening to each player's individual sound deliberately.  Every player is different in the Dimension instruments, and so it is good to "audition" each one for subtle differences in timbre, attack of short notes, phrasing of legato, etc.  This makes you more aware of what they are doing, quite like a conductor who knows his orchestra.   So building your own template is a good idea anyway, based upon loading and testing each individual player.  Though I know many people are too impatient or busy to do that and have to crank out a track instantly so want "out of the box"  generic programming.   But with templates, once you do the initial work, everything you do later is already set up. 

I just love the lush sound of Appassionata Strings and I'm daydreaming of something like "Dimension Appassionata Violins". It could be for example a section of 38 violins in unison that could be divided into two sections of 20 and 18 (1st and 2nd violins) which could be divided further into sections of 10+10 (1st violins divisi) and 9+9 (2nd violins divisi). This would fulfill two of my wishes. Different set of sounds for 1st and 2nd violins and a huge sound for 1st+2nd violins playing in unison. All together this would mean 7 diferent set of samples (38-20-18-10-10-9-9). In dimension violins you can divide the section into 8 different parts, so this would be one less than that. At least in my mind this idea wouldn't be impossible to execute. Of course I'm all but an expert of creating professional samples. But oh how fantastic it would be... :D

Agreed, that would be very cool - it could be the ultimate violin section library.

Well actually the current complete VSL strings allow you to do that sort of complex divisi especially with Dimension added.    I do not hesitate for a second dividing Appassionata either alone of layered with another section into the smaller sections. Part of the reason is that now the sound has become so much more complex due to Dimension strings being added. 

I am now simply frothing at the mouth for the violas... this can present a certain danger in the studio.

@William said:

Well actually the current complete VSL strings allow you to do that sort of complex divisi especially with Dimension added.

Yes, of course this is true. But in addition to the points I made earlier, the deep sound of a huge unison section and the different sound sets for first and second violins, there would also be the divisi sections for both of them and what's most important and the whole point of all this, they all would be in perfect balance with each other and the realism would really rise to the next level. As it has with other dimension instruments.

Due to their large section sizes, VSL's Appassionata Strings have a unique sound. To have that sound available in 'Dimensionised' form would be great.

@Conquer said:

Due to their large section sizes, VSL's Appassionata Strings have a unique sound. To have that sound available in 'Dimensionised' form would be great.

You can achieve a huge section sound using DS, it's just a matter of careful positioning of doubled players on the MIR stage (using different humanize variations on different players is usually very helpful). Another, simpler but very efficient option is to combine DS and Orchestral Strings sections.

You can listen to an example of the 2nd method here (Wagner example from ca. 4' onwards) though this time not for a "huge", but standard symphonic violin sections (more spatial resolution an depth resulting from DS added to Orchestral Strings).