Hi
A quick question.
Is the VSL Wagner Tuba transposing in B-Flat or F?
Thanks
Adriaan
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VSL Wagner Tuba
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This site perpetuates the confusion about the origin of the instrument.
First it states - Adolphe Sax invented it. Then it states - Wagner ordered its construction.
Considering Wagner's egotistical nature, it is probable that it is actually a SaxTuba, but Wagner became identified with it because of his fame. If you look at Sax's other inventions - the Saxhorn and Saxophone among them - he was probably the one responsible for the instrument's basic design and quality.
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Thanks for the relpies. There is indeed a great deal of confusion surrounding the Wagner tuba, as it is actually more of a modified horn as Kent Kennan points out. Juding by the range on the VSL instrument, it might be a modern B-flat / F instrument. In Sibelius I write for it as transposing in B-flat, with the same transposition as the euphonium when notated in treble clef. It makes sense to me since the two instruments are sometimes interchangable when refered to as tenor tuba in a score.
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I played horn on Bruckner's 7th symphony that used 4 Wagner tubas, though I was on horn not tuba. But the tubas were played by extra horn players who weren't particularly specializing on it, so they were able to switch over without much trouble. The Wikipedia article (never a reliable source) states it is in either F or Bflat. However, the same article states:
"Wagner was inspired to invent this instrument after a brief visit to Paris in 1853, when he visited the shop of Adolphe Sax, the inventor of the saxophone. "
"Inspired to invent" ? What does that mean? He stole it? He saw a prototype? It is completely vague. It also sounds like propaganda put out by Cosima Wagner.
The same article then states:
"The sound of the Wagner tuba is mellower than that of the horn and sounds more distant, yet also more focused."
That is nonsense. "More distant yet also more focused" - that is meaningless. Also, the Wagner tuba is famous for NOT being as mellow as a horn. It is more blatant, which is why it was invented. Wagner wanted something that would project more. Anyway, the instrument is pitched in F and B Flat much like the horn, with similar valves.
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I am going too far with this, but it is interesting. Here is a passage from my favorite orchestration book by Cecil Forsyth -
The orchestral godfather of all this group of instruments was Richard Wagner. His original and successful intention was to intro-
duce a new tone-colour into the orchestra akin to but diflerent from that of the Horns. The new instruments were to be, and actually
were, Modified Horns. In particular they were to be strong enough to support and contrast with the Trombones and Trumpets and were
to have an even compass of about four octaves. His idea was simply to write eight Horn -parts and so arrange the parts for his new instruments that four of his Horn-players could be turned over at any time to play them.The instruments were to have a bore slightly larger than that of
the Horns, but much less than that of the true Tubas. There were to
be four pistons, of which three only were to be necessary for compass-
purposes. The 4th piston was to be used in order to secure truth of
intonation in the bottom octave. It was to be a sort of " compensating "
piston.The instruments were to be arranged in two pairs, a small high-
pitched pair and a large low-pitched pair.The small pair was to be built in Bb, and was to have a compass,
in actual sounds, of about that of the Viola or the Bb-alto Horn.The large pair was to be built in F, and was to have a compass,
in actual sounds, of about that of the Cello or Bassoon.None of the above is a true Tuba. They are all Modified Horns,
slender half-tube instruments much like the ordinary French Horn.
This is exactly what Wagner intended. However, he called them
Tenor-Tuben and Bass-Tuben.In addition to the above two pairs of Modified Horns, Wagner
introduced one true Tuba into his orchestra, a large four-valve
instrument played with a big cup-mouthpiece and capable of pro-
ducing its fundamental tone with ease. It was originally built in
C, and its part in the Ring demands a compass downwards to the
low Eb/Wagner called this instrument the Kontrabass-Tuba.
This group, then, of the so-called " Wagner Tubas " was made up of
two distinct types of instrument, a quartet of two high and two low
Modified Horns and one true Tuba.As happened with regard to the Bass-Trumpet, Wagner's
intentions with regard to their shape, mechanism, and players were
found to be capable of improvement. These intentions were therefore
departed from. On the other hand, his intentions with regard to their
pitch and quality could not be ignored.
They have therefore been altered. In outward
appearance they are no longer the same. Their
bells have been turned vertically upwards. They have been drilled,
so to speak, into the semblance of military smartness. More important,
the French Horn is no longer used as the strict model for their " build."
Instead of that, a modified type of Saxhorn or Saxotrcmiba has been
adopted. They still remain half-tube instruments with a, conical bore
like that of the Horns, not cylindrical like that of the Trumpets and
Trombones. The funnel-shaped mouth-piece, somewhat larger than
that of the Horns, is still employed, and the instruments themselves
have been, in most countries, taken away from the Horn-players and
handed over either to military Saxhorn-players or to Trombonists.^In this country there are at any rate three sets of these instru-
ments. They are all fundamentally of the same
pattern, though one set in its desperate anxiety to show the right
military swagger has pranked itself up in musically non-effective
brass cuirasses.The tone-quality and attack of these instruments is quite different
from that of the true Tuba family. The tone is less "bullocky,"
quieter, and more " other- worldish." There is less impact in the attack,
and the player, owing to the size and shape of the mouthpiece, is
unable to force the tone. The Wagner parts are not difficult for the
instruments, but the instruments themselves need continual careful
lip-control in order to secure a beautiful and steadytone.
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Is that wiki as well? I would be almost compelled to edit that article."The sound of the Wagner tuba is mellower than that of the horn and sounds more distant, yet also more focused."
That is nonsense. "More distant yet also more focused" - that is meaningless. Also, the Wagner tuba is famous for NOT being as mellow as a horn. It is more blatant, which is why it was invented. Wagner wanted something that would project more.
