If you plan to transpose all cells within a VI instance you simply should transpose the related track in your sequenzer instead. The result will be identical.
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Herb
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Unfortunately I think the answer is "no". [:S] If this is something you need to do a lot, it might be worth slogging through all the individual cell transpositions and then saving the matrix with a '+2' added to its name. Global transpose is a feature I'd expect to see in a pro sample player, maybe VSL will add it in an update some time...
Just transposing patches up or down in VI will not deliver what you want, you have to use transpose and pitchbend together.
That means, make a global track-transpose in your sequenzer and add also a continous inverse pitchbend data on this sequenzer track. (semi or whole tone step up and picthbend 100 or 200 cent down)
You can set pitchbend range in VI to a semitone or a whole tone, so you just have to set pitchbend to maximum value in the sequenzer track.
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Herb
>I want to transpose UP +2 in the VI Player, and then DOWN -2 in my DAW
As Herb said, one cancels the other so you'd end up with Transpose = 0! The 'transpose' function simply shifts MIDI notes up and down, it doesn't alter the pitch of the samples. To do the '2nd violins different samples trick' you have to use Pitch Bend: transpose the MIDI part -2 semis and (assuming the pitch bend range is set to the default value of 200*) whack up your pitch wheel to maximum to force the notes back to concert pitch.
(* The setting is found under 'Options' - the pitch slider circled in your screenshot just shows the current position of the pitch wheel.)
If you're using a full instrument collection you could also transpose the part -1 semi, set the pitch bend range to 100 and max out the pitch wheel as before. However, doing this with Special Edition instruments is fruitless since they use tone rather than semitone sample mapping - if you're using SE, stick with the -2 transposition. [;)]
FWIW, IMO the phasing that occurs when unison 1st and 2nd violins notes play the same sample may not be noticeable within a full arrangement. Another way of avoiding it is to temporarily switch the 2nds to a different, similar-sounding articulation for the note(s) in question.
DaddyO, the trick Peter was talking about is most likely the one outlined above. It is actually quite easy, and has been a standard VSL trick for a long time.
There are a couple steps that make it quite easy. You can do a global setting in the VI for a maximum pitch bend range, generally either one or two semitones depending on whether you are using the full libraries or the SE libraries.
You then set the maximum pitch bend setting in your DAW, again to either one or two semitones, as above.
When you are ready to realize the score, then transpose the part down in your sequencer, and raise the lower pitch back up to concert pitch using the pitch bend. That ensures that you have different samples playing on any unison notes between the 1st and 2nd violins. Since the pitchbend has been defined in the sequencer as a half (or whole) step, all you have to do when using the pitchbend, is to raise it to its maximum level. Since the maximum pitchbend range has been defined to what is specifically needed, the need to be concerned about any fine adjustments has been eliminated.
Hi DaddyO, you've almost got it but I think you slightly misunderstand what 'transpose' means in this context. When you transpose down -2 in your DAW, you're making the MIDI notes a tone lower. When you transpose up +2 in the VI player, you're simply moving the MIDI notes (not the samples) back up 2 semis, so the VI is now seeing the notes at concert pitch - not what you intended. The secret is to leave the VI transposition setting at 0, and *pitch bend* the instrument up +2. The VI sees the part a tone lower and so uses different samples, but the samples are bent up +2 into concert pitch. Thus it really is a "transposition trick", but the trick also involves pitch bend! HTH.
If any of that fails to make sense, please say so. This stuff is confusing and everyone here is happy to help. [;)]
As Conquer said, everyone here is happy to help, so to reiterate his point, please keep asking until you are clear with how to go about the pitch bend technique.
One other comment, especially as this involves the 2nd violins, and the pitch bend is minimal, the tone will remain quite fine enough. Any "loss" is really minimal, and is a non-issue. If the technique didn't work well, it would not have the lengthy history that it does.
As this is apparently how the string libraries work, I love to see VSL implement a global function that would take care of the pitch bend and transposition for an entire preset. The users should not need tinkering around with their sequencer /notation software to setup the second violin section.
>there is no real-time, as you compose way to implement the trick. The only way to do it is at rendering.
DaddyO, here's how I would make the 'transpose trick' work in real time using two MIDI tracks in Logic: Record a 'pitch wheel max' movement (no notes) on MIDI track #1, delete all but the maximum PB value from the event list (or whatever your DAW calls it) and extend the MIDI region manually (ie by dragging its right hand edge) to a large amount of bars.
Set MIDI track #2 to transpose -2: that will transpose all incoming MIDI notes down a tone in real time. Put MIDI track #2 in 'record ready', start playback from the top and play along: the PB you recorded on MIDI track #1 will bend the samples' pitch up a tone in real time for as long as the track is playing, and as you play along at concert pitch through MIDI track #2 you'll hear your second violin part at the right pitch (but using a different set of samples) in real time.
@EP >as this is apparently how the string libraries work, I love to see VSL implement a global function that would take care of the pitch bend and transposition for an entire preset. The users should not need tinkering around with their sequencer / notation software to set up the second violin section.
VSL don't encourage this way of using their libraries because pitch bend makes the sound a little less real - they suggest other methods, such as using a different, similar-sounding articulation, or giving the nominal first and second violins a different reverb / panning treatment. As I said earlier, this only becomes an issue anyway when seconds and firsts play a *unison* note, and even then the phase-related audio artefact that *might* occur (and it might not, if the notes in question were played a few ticks apart) doesn't sound too bad - it's not like a horrible glitch, and you probably won't hear it in a full arrangement.
If it's not recommended by VSL then my suggestion can be disregarded. Currently, I'm relying on MIR, Dim Strings and other libraries to set up the second instruments/sections. I have been thinking of giving the pitch-bend/transposition trick a try but maybe it's not worth the trouble. Thanks for the information.
Hey EP, perhaps you should give the transpose / pitch bend approach a whirl before passing on it - lots of users are happy with it, and VSL don't actively discourage it (they simply point out that there are other ways of mocking up second violin sections that don't involve pitch bend). Just a thought! [:)]