Dimension Strings: SSD v More Ram: Which Is More Important?

[Suntower]

Hi,

Windows 64 user.

I'm not sure what the bottle neck will be, but I'm convinced one will need either GOBS of ram... or a dedicated SSD... or both to be happy with the new Dimension universe. So, which is most important? Let's say one had $200 to spend  (as if!). Is it better to use that dough for ram or an SSD?

It seems like the SSD helps primarily during -load- time, but after that, it's the -ram- that matters far more. What one -really- needs is the ram since each violin is going to take 400-1GB ram... so all 8 players will require 4-8GB (or more?). So a machine might need 32GB RAM to run a full orchestra.

I'm not just thinking about this in terms of the Violins. I'm thinking that once the rest of the strings are released, you might need, say, 20GB of ram just for the strings. And then there's brass and winds.

OTOH, back in the bad ol' days, one assigned Virtual Memory. I"d pretty much forgotten about that. But now perhaps one would get an SSD and use part of that for the Virtual Memory somehow?

Observations from users who've had some time with it now?

TIA,

---JC

[Bill]

Right now 32GB of RAM is about $150.  What's the capacity of your motherboard?

[wgturner]

@Suntower said:

It seems like the SSD helps primarily during -load- time, but after that, it's the -ram- that matters far more.

The SSD does help with load time, but that's not all of it.  By having your VSL libs on a SSD you can decrease the sample buffers used from 16k to 4k due to the ultra-fast seek times on SSD.  In doing this, the you will use much less RAM for the same amount of sample content, due to the much smaller buffers used.

If your machine is capable of 32GB of RAM and you only have, say 16GB, max it out.  RAM is ridiculously cheap.  But, also get a SSD to place your most-used sample libs for maximum benefit.  I haven't purchased DS yet, but from what I've seen, going the 'more RAM and more SSD' route seems like the thing to do.  Moving my VSL libs from HD to SSD (and lowering the RAM buffers) was an amazing boost to my system - i7, Win7, 24GB RAM.

Best,

Greg

[Suntower]

Thanks to you both for the very helpful replies.

I have 4 slots of 4GB sticks. I -think- I can replace them with 8GB sticks for 32GB.

'Cheap' is quite relative. $150 is a lot for -me-. I wouldn't even -consider- D/S right now if it were not:

a) a fabulous deal and

b) 'the future'. I'm convinced that all decent libs will head in this hyper-detail direction and thus require hyper-resources.

If I get D/S, I'm screwing myself out of some other purchases I actually -need- right now. In order to -really- use it to full advantage I'll need not $825 USD, but realistically closer to 1,825...

a) new SSD

b) new RAM

c) MIR Pro

d) VI Pro

...none of which I would get right now otherwise. Or I can just get it and forget about it until next year and then congratulate myself on my foresight.

I always feel a bit defensive in bringing this up, but as my grandmother would say: There's the price. And then there's the -real- price. What you pay if you want to get -real- work done.

Anyhoo... THANKS. What I need to do is becoming clearer. Cheers!

---JC

[wgturner]

I agree, 'cheap' is relative... I was speaking in the context of the i7 computer I added a couple years ago.  For 24 GB RAM I paid a bit under $800 - and that was a great deal!  Bill is correct - I've seen 32GBs of ram going for around $150+ on Newegg.  What a difference a few years makes!!

Looks like you have a lot to think about!  I would highly recommend getting VI Pro though.  The amount of control you have over the samples is great, and from my POV, is one of the most important things to utilize when recording sample-based tracks.  There's no doubt the intro pricing on DS is great, but we also don't know when we'll have the full lib (... next year....), there seem to be no mutes, and the lib uses lots more resources, meaning adding a new computer, or working with less of a full orchestra at one time.  Also seems like more time will be involved in tweaking things (x8), and for me, taking more time to record isn't really something I can get by with on a deadline - there's never enough time!  Of course, I could be wrong about that (since I don't have it yet.... ).

Anyway, you will definitely not regret getting VI Pro - it is a fabulous piece of software and IMO the best sample player on the planet!

Best,

Greg

[Bill]

Yes! VI Pro goes at the top of the list!

[Suntower]

Thanks to you both. I agree that I need to get VI Pro. I've gotten a chance now to hear the poly legato and the timing changes for different repetitions... and the 'human' thing. They really do add something to the 'performance'.

The grinding thing for me is that the D/S demos really sound good, but I'm pretty sure it will only mean -more- work (and $) to get those better results. For me, -most- of the time, C/S is a better fit. -Most- of the time, when I hit C4, I want all 6 violins doing the same thing. Easy to notate. One VI. Economical.  With D/S you're in control, but the price of that control is that you almost have to think about 6 -guys- as opposed to 1 -section-.

In Future World... I guess what I -thought- D/S was when I was ignorant... VI Prof would -intelligently-. allocate players from a single MIDI track. IOW: I hit C4 and I get 8 guys C4 unisono. I play a diad and I get 4 guys on note A and 4 guys on note B... just like it's notated.

IOW: If it was just the $ I'd suck it up, but I'm also currently calculating the extra work... It seems like it will be a -lot- more work to take advantage of what it does... and that much further removed from notation.

Cheers,

---JC

[Gusfmm]

 I left you some thoughts on another thread, but let me reconfirm here: Something you need to assess yourself, at your end, is how much RAM you need when you use 4 sans and 4 con-sordino Chamber String instruments simultaneously. See what kind of RAM footprint you require. That would probably give you a reasonable indication of what you should expect if you got DS at this point (so violins). Not sure if you've ever done that. You need to review also your streaming buffer size, latency, etc. to better understand the potential impact on your system.

The way you use any library may considerably vary from how somebody else uses it- # articulations used, etc......

I'm afraid nobody else will be able to advise you any better than what you can find out at your end.

[Gusfmm]

@Suntower said:

IOW: If it was just the $ I'd suck it up, but I'm also currently calculating the extra work... It seems like it will be a -lot- more work to take advantage of what it does... and that much further removed from notation.

 

With the above, your original point evolved from being a technical question, to being an emotional comment. So it seems the question is whether you appreciate what DS can do for you or not. Whether you really need it.  

The impression I get is that you don't seem to like the addtl' effort required to make it work the way it was conceptually designed for. Your last comment about it being "further removed from notation" is inconsequent for a sampler user. The use of sample libraries inherently require work well outside merely composing on staff.

If part of your real interest is to create a great quality electronic mock-up, using samples, then DS may help you get closer to that goal. At least some like me think so. While others elect to compose on paper, and have their pieces performed by a real orchestra, as their ultimate goal. And million others in between. Your decision.

[Suntower]

It ain't emotional at all... except to the extent that it's frustrating to really like the sound, but not easily get the information to make the right decision. I think I've sussed here that it will definitely require more $$ and effort than I wanna spend right now. It's a -very- cool product and I'm sure VSL will do very well with it.

I think there should be more than one type of VSL user. It may not be how a lot of people here work, but what I do ain't 'inconsequent'... to me anyway. It seems like, for a lot of people here, the -only- thing that really matters is HOW COOL DOES IT SOUND? I agree that is -very- important; otherwise I wouldn't have had such strong interest in D/S. But that is -far- from my only consideration. I've got a big closet full of hardware and software I rarely use because they're just too big a PITA for most work I do.

I think having some RAM/CPU estimates is a good thing... like the EPA Mileage on new cars. It doesn't have to be 100% accurate to be a helpful comparative. YMMV.

Anyone who uses a tool to make money likes to know the Total Cost Of Ownership. It ain't just the up front price. It's all the other purchases to make it pay. And it's also essential to know how much -time- it will take to get up to speed; or will add/reduce the time to get products delivered.

My beef has been that VSL doesn't give enough info, presented in an easy to digest manner. Like most companies, they emphasize fabulous demos. I know they can do it---Paul's videos are top notch! I think companies resist doing so because they don't wanna scare people off. But I think that a pro app like VSL shouldn't shy away from giving people the -real- requirements.

Best,

---JC

[Gusfmm]

 Avoiding falling into excessive rethoric, just a few thoughts.

- Yes, I believe there are indeed various different profile VSL users out there.

- Only a fool would be willing to pay the costs of a VSL library and only be interested in 'how cool it sounds'. It sounds insulting to read such generalization I must point out here.

- My use of the term 'inconsequent' differs greatly from the context you used it in. Just clarifying, just in case.

- Total Cost of Ownership is somethings the end-user must estimate; it is use and application dependant. You don't go and buy a PC concerned with the TCO, you buy the best PC that fits your actual and expected needs in the foreseeable future. Whether you may need a wireless router, external drive, USB memory stick, need three days of training to operate it, or upgrading to SSD because your orchestral template includes 27 different libraries, VSL and non VSL, combined in your particular way and workflow, that is totally up to you and your very especific situation and needs. Which of course, could vary greatly from user to user. Furthermore, nobody but you can determine how long it'll take you to get you up to speed and "get product" delivered.

- Bottom line, your requirements are unique to you. You should be able to, and have been advised to do so, and provided with suggestions on how to do so, determine/estimate a reasonable approximation to how DS would behave and tax your system and resources. Really not sure what else you expect.

And you can be certain, many here are very willing to help, and provide feedback to espefic reasonable questions, and try to help with issues.

[Sergino Futurino]

@Suntower said:

Is it better to use that dough for ram or an SSD?

I'm doing this:

for now I use Dimension Strings (obviously only violins) from a regular hard disk

in the meantime I'm  learning to use  it.

When I will have the complete  all library I would really need a lot of RAM,

so I will buy an SSD that I hope in this lapse of time keep on decreasing in price.

The only thing that's annoying is the time for  loading  this library,  very longer than the ones I already have on SSD.