Pre / Post Fader And Reverb Panning

[mischamouse]

Hi all,

I hope this doesn't sound like a dumb question but I am getting seriously confused reading loads of different forum posts. I've been going through the Special Edition demos and I vaguely understand why the reverb sends are pre fader however when panning pre fader the reverb is always centred rather than coming from the direction of source.

Can somebody please clarify why pre fader is better than post and whether I should be concerned with the reverb always sounding in the centre. 

Many thanks

/mischa

[Beat Kaufmann]

Hi Mischa

Which one is better: PreFader or PostFader?

Because I don't know where "pre" is within your mix I wrote about some general mixing possibilities below.

Reverb-Concepts

First of all you need to know that you have a lot of possibilities for using reverbs in connection with samples. And further, it counts the result and not the concept. So no concept is wrong or right at a first glance

Nevertheless, there are some concepts which will lead to better results than others.

A second point is probably important. Reverbs can be used either for A) adding a bit of reverb for having a nice sound or B) you need reverbs for creating a certain depth of a concert hall.

A) Users normally install a reverb within a FX-Channel. By sending a part of the signal to this Reverb they adjust the reverb ratio for a certain instrument.

Advantage of A) You use just one reverb effect (less CPU-Power) Disadvantage: With this reverbaration concept you can't create a good simulation of different depths.

B) Users often install one reverb per depth. This means you create for example 3 different BUS-Channels (Group-Channels). Each of them gets a reverb which is trimmed to simulate a certain depth by using a certain balance between the direct singnal and the Early Reflections and by adding a certain amount of tail. After that you are going to route all the instruments through their corresponding depth...

Advantage: You are able to create depths with a high quality. Disadvantage: You need more CPU-Power and the system is more complicated.

And how to pan now?

Once you have installed your reverb system (either A) or B)) and your instruments already got its certain reverb you are going to pan instrument by instrument to its place your virtual stage.

Example: Left with depth2. I recommend to pan always together with the reverb.

Hope my text helped a bit.

Beat

BTW There was a similar discussion in the VI-Control-Forum. Maybe it will give any further helps...

[mischamouse]

Hi Beat,

many thanks for your email. i understand about the different depths however when having one depth for front andhave all strings pre fader to this bus, with 1st violins on the left and celli on the right the reverb will always sound centre unless a 2 panned fx busses are setup (well in logic anyway). So with 3 depths and using pre fader how do people resolve this issue? Or do people rely on the dry sound for positioning only? 

i generally set all instruments in Vienna Ensemble. 1 ensemble per orchestral group and have an fx channel in each ensemble. i hooe this is not a dumb question but what do you mean by "where pre sits in the mix"?

/mischa

[Beat Kaufmann]

@mischamouse said:

... i understand about the different depths however when having one depth for front andhave all strings pre fader to this bus, with 1st violins on the left and celli on the right the reverb will always sound centre unless a 2 panned fx busses are setup (well in logic anyway). So with 3 depths and using pre fader how do people resolve this issue? Or do people rely on the dry sound for positioning only? 

i generally set all instruments in Vienna Ensemble. 1 ensemble per orchestral group and have an fx channel in each ensemble. i hooe this is not a dumb question but what do you mean by "where pre sits in the mix"?

/mischa

Hi Mischa

My proposal doesn't need any fading within the channels.

Observe the routing of the instruments below. There is no send or fading to the depth...

For the same picture but with 1280 pixels

You should route the audio channels trough their corresponding depth (instead directly to the stereo out)

In general: For sendings you should use the option "post".

With the option "Pre" you don't have included the channel fader changings. But you don't  have all the other effects of the channel in the send signal as well.

So the option "pre" isn't a good solution for the send-option in most cases.

I hope that I really got your question in the right way...

Beat

[mischamouse]

Hi Beat,

That makes perfect sense to me and I really am most grateful. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, why then are the VSL demos all pre fader?

[Beat Kaufmann]

@mischamouse said:

...why then are the VSL demos all pre fader?

God knows why they used the pre...

Maybe you know the performer's name so don't need to ask God...[;)]

Beat