2nd Violin not changing articulations in Sibelius6 and Vienna Ensemble

[duaneandrews]

Hi I have a string quartet setup in Sibelius with sounds coming through Vienna Ensemble from the Solo Strings library. For some reason the second violin doesn't change articulations. I set it up in the same way the other instruments were setup using the Solo Strings Sound Set and other than being assigned to it's own midi channel it appears to be configured in the same way Violin 1 is. The bizarre things is how only that instrument is not picking up the articulation changes while the other three instruments are. Any ideas out there? Thanks, Duane

[andi]

Hallo Duane!

Could it be that you use a violin ensemble staff (like Violin II or Violin 2) for the second violin? If you are not sure, try adding another Solo violin staff to your score. Then cut the content of your old Violin 2 staff and paste it to the new Solo violin staff. If this helps, you can then rename the Solo violin staff to Violin 2 (or whatever you want).

If that was not the problem, please make sure to reserve two channels on the Manual sound set page for the violins and to set up the same channels in vienna Ensemble.

Best regards,
Andi

[duaneandrews]

Thanks for the quick reply Andi, I tried creating a new solo violin instrument in the score and copying the 2nd violin part to that staff. Without changing anything else I hit playback and in the mixer window for that staff it automatically setup the Vienna Ensemble instance I configured and setup the instrument on midi channel 1. That worked fine but when I switched it to midi channel 2 which is what I have configured for the 2nd violin on the manual sound sets page it no longer changed articulations. I have the same program name (SS Violin) for midi channel 1 and 2...could that be throwing anything off? Duane

[andi]

Hi Duane!

After changing channels on the Sibelius mixer, unfortunately Sibelius sometimes behaves like that (not switching correctly). I recommend repeating the step I told you last time, but this time for both violins. Setting up two channels with "SS Violin" is correct.

If you are using an older version than Sibelius 6.2, I strongly recommend updating to Sibelius 6.2. Some playback bugs were fixed in this version.

I hope this helps.

Best,
Andi

[duaneandrews]

I've tried a few different things.

first i created new instruments for the violins and violin 1 (midi ch 1) still worked fine but violin 2 (midi ch 2) still wouldn't pick up the articulations.

then i tried downloading and reinstalling the solo strings sound set again and started a new project with a new instance of ve in a new configuration with just the 2 solo violins on separate midi channels. i set up a bar of 4 quarter notes without any articulation modification then a bar of pizz then a bar of arco with trem then a bar without trem then a bar of pizz again. violin 1 plays back fine but violin 2 is glitchy. it will switch from pizz to trem but then on the notes without trem it stays on trem but goes from trem back to pizz.

i activated the sibelius player device in the playback configuration i tried switching to the sibelius essentials player in the mixer and both violins played back fine.

here's a twist...when i switched back to VE in the mixer both violins played back fine!

i then went back to the original project and switched to the sibelius essentials then back to ve and everything appears to be working fine. i'm still feeling mildly unsettled but perhaps that was the trick! i'll be back for sure if anything glitches out again and thanks for help.

d

[gyprock]

@duaneandrews said:

Hi I have a string quartet setup in Sibelius with sounds coming through Vienna Ensemble from the Solo Strings library. For some reason the second violin doesn't change articulations. I set it up in the same way the other instruments were setup using the Solo Strings Sound Set and other than being assigned to it's own midi channel it appears to be configured in the same way Violin 1 is. The bizarre things is how only that instrument is not picking up the articulation changes while the other three instruments are. Any ideas out there? Thanks, Duane

I've got the same problem with Violins 2 not correctly changing articulations. In my case I'm using App Violins from SE Vol 3. All my other strings (Violins 1, Violas, Cellos, Basses) change correctly (e.g. Pizz to Arco) whereas Violins 2 will stay on Pizz and not change back to Arco. Violins 2 will respond to symbols such as staccato, slur, tenuto but they won't respond to "normal" or "natural" markings via Ctrl+T. I have all the latest software and soundsets and have loaded the house styles. I have distinct midi channels in my Sibelius playback configuration and in VE Pro 5. My mixer is setup correctly ie the correct sound IDs are there. Obviously this is a bug. Any ideas on how to resolve the issue? I've tried switching back to Siblius Essential and then back to VE Pro but this doesn't fix the problem.

[andi]

Hello gyprock!

It may have different reasons when articulations do not change correctly. Please check the following things:

- Did you load the latest version of the "VE Special Edition" or "VE Special Edition PLUS" sound set?
- Did you make channel/program settings for all instruments in your score in the Sibelius/Playback Devices/Manual Sound Sets Page?
- Maybe you have the wrong Sibelius instrument in your score. I recommend adding "Violin 2" once again to your score and cut and paste the content of the old staff to the new one. Don't use the instruments with "[VSL Appassionata Strings]" in the name. They are ment for the DVD collections and might not work correctly with the Special Edition.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Andi

[gyprock]

Hi Andreas,

I've done everything you mentioned but still Violin 2 is not switching. Here is what I have:

Violins I (channel 1) Program name: Violins Appassionata (SE3) SoundID: strings.violin.ensemble
Violins II (channel 2) Program name: Violins Appassionata (SE3) SoundID: strings.violin.ensemble
Violas (channel 3) Program name: Violas Appassionata (SE3) SoundID: strings.viola.ensemble
Cellos (channel 4) Program name: Celli Appassionata (SE3) SoundID: strings.violincello.ensemble
D. Basses(channel 5) Program name: Doublebasses Appassionata (SE3) SoundID: strings.contrabass.ensemble

I'm using a manual sound set: VE Special Edition PLUS

I've got one active device: Vienna Ensemble Pro

Each instrument in my mixer is pointing to the above active device and each instrument has a unique channel 1-5 with the above mentioned SoundIDs.

I'm running VI Pro with matrices from category 06 App Strings V3 (e.g. 51S App violins). My channels are unique as above (1-5).

I'm using House Style: Vienna Symphonic Library.lib 21/03/2012 102KB. This was extracted from VSL_House_Style_Sib6-7_v1.8

My test file is the same two bars repeated in all 5 strings. Bar 1 is Pizz and bar 2 is Arco. All strings except Violins II switch correctly.

My system is Win 7 Pro 64 bit running VE Pro 5 64-bit with VI Pro, MIR Pro and 24GB memory. All my software is up-to-date.

Let me know if I can provide anymore information.

Regards,
Gyprock

[andi]

Hello Gyprock!

It seems that everything is set up correctly.

If you have fiddled about in the Sibelius mixer, it may be necessary to reset all outputs to (Auto) there.

If this still doesn't help, you can send me your score and Playback configuration (xml file and data folder) to

The Playback configurations for Sibelius 6 on a Windows 7 computer can be found at the following location:
Users\your username\AppData\Roaming\Sibelius Software\Sibelius 6

Best,
Andi

[gyprock]

Hi Andi,

Changing the mixer to (Auto) solved the problem. What a simple solution. Thanks for your help. What does (Auto) do?

Gyprock

[andi]

I'm glad that helped. (Auto) resets the ouput devices and Sibelius assigns them newly. By default the outputs are set to (Auto) and get assigned automatically. Normally it is best to leave it that way.

Best,
Andi

[Rub1]

Hi, I think there is a bug in Sibelius mixer showing wrong midichannel. I've noticed many times that violin 1 and violin 2 is on the same midichannel in the mixer. But violin 2 is routing to midichannel 2 in Vienna Ensemble anyway, so it works. And I totally agree that the auto setting works everytime. Best Ruben

[zentrumsounds]

Reviving this thread as I can't seem to resolve this problem in Dimension Strings. A similar issue seems to exist in the content of these threads <http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/35963.aspx> and especially here <http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/35552.aspx> where Andi suggests using individual staves for each player of the Dimernsion Strings. With that in mind:

I'm trying to connect the eight individual players of Dimension Strings to indpendent staves in Sibelius 6.2. I have set things up in VEP and Sibelius with a single instance of VIP hosting each player I can activate each of these by clicking on the small speaker icon which tests the MIDI output for each stave in Sibelius's mixer. However when I then call upon these players in the score things seem quite muddled. Violin 1 to 4 work fine but then Violin 5 sends its MIDI to Violin 3 and similar confused routing continues up unitl part 8 (which sens tis MIDI to player 6). It all seems muddled and not disimilar to previous issues I've seen when sending multiple parts to individual players playing the same insturment. However I really need to find a soloution as having access to each player in Sibelius is the main reason I purchased Dimension Strings.

Any advice much appreciated!

Juergen  

[andi]

Hello Juergen!

This problem can have different reasons. Please check the following things:
- Did you reserve a program/channel on the Sibelius Manual Sound Sets tab for all instruments in your score? 8 violin staves will need 8 reserved channels.
- The Dimension Violins only switch correctly with the Sibelius instruments "Violin I [VSL Dimension Strings]" and "Violin II [VSL Dimension Strings]" that are included with the "Vienna Symphonic Library" House Style. You can then rename the instruments if you want to. If you are not sure, if all of your violins use these Sibelius instruments, I recommend adding them again and cutting and pasting the content from the old staves to the new ones.
- Trying to make manual output device and channel settings in the Sibelius mixer can mess up your playback. If you have tried to make settings there, reset all outputs to (Auto).

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Andi

[zentrumsounds]

Thanks Andi for the information (and I HAVE A QUESTION AT THE BOTTOM... please do read thanks)

Yes to all your questions. Unfortunately. However in the end I started a new template as for some reason despite trying everything no soloution worked. 

THe ONLY way I've now managed to do this is by editing the soundset itself and creating individual sound sets for each player. So new violins are strings.violin.ensemble.dimension.1 -> strings.violin.ensemble.dimension.8 etc. Initially I added the number in this format violin.1. ensemble which did not work but eventually the added numeral at the end of the string seemed to solve things. Also it seems that even breathing on the mixer in Sibelius causes a nightmare of confusion. DON'T touch the (auto) soundset selection button!!! So my method which after a day of testing seems solid is:

1. Create a new soundset for each additional individual player (see above). 

2. Save the soundset (in this case Strings).

3. Reopen Sibelius and then assign the various instruments in the score in the usual way.

4. N.B. Open the mixer. Play a short passage and if necessary reassign the individual staves to the CORRECT midi channel but DON'T touch auto... JUST the MIDI assignment. 

This seems to work. However its very frustrating and the above was only arrived at after countless hours trawling the sibelius forum and reading some of Daniel's (who of course is now gone) responses. 

I really think there should be a video tutorial for those seeking to solve the above. The current optimising sibelius for VSL pdf is good but doesn't help when one is trying to push things a little further I believe. 

One final question Andi. Have the .fxp files changed recently. Some of my files (older string library matrixes) seem to have changed.

Thanks,

Juergen 

[zentrumsounds]

Perhaps some additional comments to the above are necessary: 

First off, creating relationships between VSL and Sibelius where multiples of a single instrument occur, require quite simply some of the most frustrating setup experiences I've encountered (And I use programmes like IRCAM Open Music, MaxMSP and Kyma on a regular basis). The fundamental problem seems to be that Sibelius trys to decide how best to manage the routing. Unless you manage to follow a very strict order of setup, chances are that you will not create a functional setup which creates a solid link between multiple instruments of the same type. I've now managed (after three days dedicated to this process) to setup a score template which connects 9 violins (dimension strings ensemble plus 8 solo dimension strings), a similar set up for cellos, and a placeholder for the future viola dimension strings. The 'Optimizing Sibelius Playback' 2.4 now includes a number of troubleshooting remarks which allude to the fragile relationship and offer suggestions for solving it. However it really is not a professional connection as it takes so much troubleshooting to ensure all elements connect properly (spending day after day setting up a template is akin to tuning a car engine which never gets to drive). I should point out that the problem is ALL with Sibelius and in reality Sibelius is not really up to the task of dealing with this sort of thing. Hopefully the steinberg team release new scoring software which will solve these issues in the future. 

VSL, you make an amazing product. Dimension Strings is quite possibly the most ambitious thing I've seen in a very long time. I think the time spent with the progamme is ultimately worth it but its a real shame so many work arounds need to be found in order to establish a successful environment.

J

[andi]

Hello Juergen!

I didn't have such problems when setting up a Playback Configuration with individual staves for Dimension Strings. If you want to, you can send your score and Playback Configuration (xml file and data folder) to and I will take a look at it.

Depending on your OS and Sibelius version, the Sibelius Playback Configurations can be found in one of the following folders:
Windows Vista, 7 or 8; Sibelius 6:
Users\your username\AppData\Roaming\Sibelius Software\Sibelius 6\Playback Configurations
Windows Vista, 7 or 8; Sibelius 7:
Users\your username\AppData\Roaming\Avid\Sibelius 7\Playback Configurations
Mac OS X; Sibelius 6:
Users/your username/Library/Application Support/Sibelius Software/Sibelius 6/Playback Configurations
Mac OS X; Sibelius 7:
Users/your username/Library/Application Support/Avid/Sibelius 7/Playback Configurations
Under Mac OS X 10.7, 10.8 and 10.9 the Users/your username/Library folder is hidden by default. To get access go to the folder Users/your username. Then choose Go/Go to folder and enter “Library”.

To answer your question. The last changes to VI presets for Sibelius have been made in November 2013. I recommend using the latest version.
http://www.vsl.co.at/en/68/141/460/576/655.htm

Best,
Andi