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What? What are you talinkg about? You weren't rude at all...
Million bucks? Well... Obviously finance the R&D for this dream software and I would definitely commission the IT team at VSL to do it!
VSL products are the only ones in my windows machine that don't crash all the time, the updates are actually meaningful and they reward (not punish you) for being a loyal/longtime customer.
Aaaah (sigh!), how wonderful it is to dream...
"Beat monger" is a strawman you have devised to make someone appear foolish. You've used it a couple of times on me, in place of saying anything intelligent and in this thread to obviate any comprehension of what I actually wrote.@Errikos said:
@civilization 3: Are you comparing yourself and the gazillion other droves of beat-mongers to Stravinsky?!?!?!
In short, had VSL (and similar companies) never existed, you would still be able to realize your music through computers. A lot of us wouldn't be.
I was realizing my music for decades before there was the personal computer. I went in my life from 'concert performer' to 'free improviser' (in the meantime I spent some time in the 'electronic music lab') which are both activities where a person functions in real time. If you were unable to use a computer to realize music at all prior to VSL products, that is a sad case indeed. It puts a cart before a horse it does.
There is nowhere I particularly put myself up as Stravinsky, but you have argued in these pages by the most bullying fashion for some quite reactionary ideas. Reacting against technology (unless it's VSL). For an audience of today, Le Sacre has the weight of history behind it. In 1913 it was seriously radical. It's hard to feature you fighting on behalf of new ideas in music. You need people using drums and distortion to be 'popheads', now 'beat mongers', you do. I find from you a precious and insulated idea of things out of this kind of overheated cyberaggression: "Don't start talking again about things you don't understand - stick to computers and studio matters which you seem to know." I may know more about the studio or technology than you, but I was a musician for a long time to lead me to that. You need to make me look foolish to support your superior condescension; apparently it isn't just me noticing.
One of the reasons Le Sacre was reacted against that vehemently was loud drums (that weren't merely decoration or accent: drums qua drums) in combination with time signatures that were new to these people. In combination with dancing to those rhythms and the perceived lasciviousness. "Whores of the 16th Arrondisement!!!" If you can prove that isn't so, you have a point against mine. I remain skeptical.
As per your idea, it argues for a product geared towards, well, you... a restricted user, hence a more narrow user base comprised of people that don't use effects?? Movie music people nowadays have to have a pretty good grip of 'the studio' and 'pop production' and things that you have an aversion to out of that insularity it appears. There isn't a market share of purist virtual symphony-only people to justify the R&D expense I don't reckon. I don't think it's 'one step' from what VSL does, based in my understanding of this virtual music world, which is wider than yours at least. You are asking for a product that does less it looks like.
But ideas are good! I wouldn't hold my breath as far as this one, I would recommend obtaining a better grasp of the tools that are available, they work for people.
Well, to be frank I agree that the tools available now are in fact enough to do everything. I just find them slow. There was no actual need for a vienna ensemble and they've could've just worked with Kontakt, but both made life better and work easier. I get lost in piano-roll. I'm a musician, I'm used to reading music not colored bars in a grid... I've been working with DAWs for a year now and I don't think I'll get used to them ever, I still try to do the majority of the performace in Sibelius (basic dynamics, swing feel, keyswitches, etc.) and just do the touch up in Cubase. However, I love the latter for mixing! I find it intuitive and extremely fast. But for music performance I need a staff, otherwise I don't get it and loose the feel of it... So if I do become a millionaire and we develop this you are all getting a free copy!
Hello Casiquire, thank you for your reply. That actually answers a lot of questions. In rare occasions, when I need to imitate a real soloist, I will use an electronic wind instrument. I am actually very good on it and have never encountered limitations on it. Nevertheless, I will sometimes need to do 3 of 4 takes and still edit it a bit (keyswitches, etc.). Not to mention the time spent learning the part. So basically, the more I exercise this practice the more I realise it's not a very efficient approach and extremely time consuming. Because of the nature of my work (I must sometimes produce the whole product in a week or less) I cannot afford the time spent in learning and practising every single part in the ensemble.
At the moment I copy my handwritten score into Sibelius (I don't need to do this every time since some clients don't require a score), and there I will try to adjust playback as much as the stupid software lets me. Unfortunately I then have to transfer the MIDI into Cubase for further tweaking (More human and subtle dynamics, pitch bends, etc.) and then convert the whole thing into audio for mixing.... Aaaargh! If I could do the whole MIDI editing in Sibelius and just mix in Vienna Ensemble from the same software, I could do everything in a third of the time. Hence why I fantasise about a VSL notation software: one place for it all!
PS: the parts that are too difficult are usually arrangements of a single line that breaks up into different instruments in a section. For example the bass clarinet begins an ascending line and as it climbs the clarinet and oboe pick it up, then the flutes, the piccolos, etc. All this in the sapce of a beat. Just to give an example. A seasoned player won't struggle with it, especially considering that he/she will be surrounded by the other players doing it. If I have to do it on my own then I have no context except a click... Not the same
Hi guys, I just wanted to say, don't take your cues, or seriously at all from what 'civilization 3' says. You don't know her as well as I do. Unless you waste your time accessing her "views" on music through posts dating back 3-4 years (to savour all the splendour), you cannot possibly have an idea about them and I won't discuss them with anyone that hasn't done so. Our differences go that far back, so if I appear - or actually am - condescending to her, I have good reason to be so, after countless attempts on my part to argue intelligently, and countless posts where she's just been ignorant and outright dismissive, not just of me, but of titans (like Mozart, Beethoven, Wagner), or even talented gents like John Williams, without once having cited the name of a superior musician to them (you know, for our edification). She has no idea about Stravinsky of course (people were booing even during the opening counterpoint, and NO, it was not the drums per se, but the rhythms/syncopations and their assumption of thematic functions - to put it extremely grossly, and tonality that bothered the audience musically, choreography aside, and don't confuse it with The Afternoon of a Faun).
I am extremely busy this period to accept a dialog with that person now on this thread (I was told by a friend the thread was "open" again), but she's just SO uninformed, probably the person that knows and appreciates the least about symphonic music that I have ever come across. Symphonic music is all I ever refer to in this forum, I'm not concerned about other types of music in this forum, unless they also involve orchestral writing, and then it is about that writing I busy myself exclusively. I couldn't care any less about people creating or using others' loops, arpeggios, sounds, beats, anything really, unless it involves symphonic forces. When it does, I'm all over it!
As far as 'civilization 3' ever having been a concert performer, that brings tears of hilarity to one's eyes... What exactly did you perform concert performer? And why would you perform anything (assuming you could, I bet you couldn't if your life depended upon it), and from what repertoire since you hate it so much? Didn't the entire demographic of "dead white males" (a.k.a. "Straw Men") through the entire symphonic tradition, write "puerile melodies"? Didn't you also imply they all were rhythmically inept until about 1913 (as if you could take down a Beethoven or Chopin rhythm in a 100 years)? I mean, why bother yourself with that kind of repertoire? It's not like you did it for the money, is it?
Finally, the idea of VSL developing a symphonic D.A.W. (with or without a notator) that I came up with, was welcomed by others here that I respect, including these "new" guys who actually seem to know that symphonic music existed before all those current s**t automated software packages allowing the BEAT MONGERS to ever entertain " " " "writing" " " " for a string section. Leave well enough alone. Go vend your "classical background" stories to anyone that will believe them, don't try musicians...
I would like them to make it an OS too. People running VE on slaves usually only use them for that specific purpouse anyway. So why not create a very limited VEpro OS based on Linux. Or linux support (why on earth is there no linux support?).. either way is fine as long as i don't have to pay for an extra pro version of Windows just to run VEpro ^^,
And after they make it an OS, they can add the sequencer part, then you will have a dedicated audio OS and sequencer that is integrated with eachother for maximum performance and stability :)
Well, it would be nice :)
Times of crissis are times of oportunities. I hear that avid is clossing the Sibelius UK team. Maybe VSL should buy Sibelius and then we all will be very happy :)
