OK - one more try at VE Pro

[Michael C.]

As I've said before, I use Sonar.  In Sonar you add your plugin instruments into the audio FX bin and then have a simultaneous Midi track for midi info.  Do I need to open VE Pro for every track? If so, why?  What does this offer that simply putting the instrument VST plugin into the track does not?  If you want to add effects in Sonar you simply add them to the Audio FX bin or you can create a bus and send everything through it to save resources.  If I want to use MIR for all instruments in my mix (all tracks in Sonar) will I have to run as many instances of VE  and MIR as I am running tracks?

I truly am sorry that I am not getting this program, but the manual nor the videos are detailed enough to really get a beginner started.

Thanks again,

Mike

[Dietz]

Mike,

The concept is simple: Look at VE Pro as multi-timbral virtual instrument (like Omnisphere, for example, or Kontakt). You will have to open _one_ instance of VE Pro and send data  from _many_ MIDI-tracks into it.

I dont know how Sonar handles it, but the most comfortable way to achieve this is to have a virtual "Instrument Rack" inside the DAW, not an Instrument-Track with just on dedicated MIDI track assigned to it.

The main difference between VE Pro and conventional virtual instruments is that you will have to start the actual application externally in "Server Mode". Sonar will connect to this external VE Pro by means of the "Vienna Ensemble Pro" (or " Vienna Ensemble Pro Surround") plugin from your list of virtual instruments. The so-called Server Interface window will open. Select the Server (that's the application you started before from the list. Connect. Done.

All settings you make from now on will be saved directly with your Sonar-session, just like any other plugin or virtual instrument.

The good thing about VE Pro is that it can use its own memory space even when it's used on the same machine. Plus: You don't have to re-load all sample and all instruments when you switch projects.

It took me about twenty times as long to explain it then just doing it. :-)

HTH,

/Dietz

[Michael C.]

Dietz,

Unfortunately I have no experience with Omnisphere or Kontakt eiither so that comparison is lost on me. I am not sure what Sonar uses that would be analogous to an "instrument rack" - I'll have to check into that.  The way I have done things in the past is to assign a track (in the case of Sonar the VST goes into the FX bin of the audio track and you setup a coupled midi track for midi info), This is the only way I know of to create separate tracks - one for each instrument.  If all instruments are loaded into VE and then send to the DAW, how do you record instruments separately?

Mike

[Dietz]

@Michael C. said:

[...] If all instruments are loaded into VE and then send to the DAW, how do you record instruments separately?

Mike

Errr .... like it has been done since 30 years now - on MIDI tracks that are assigned to individual MIDI Ports / MIDI Channels of an instrument that receives MIDI data in "Multi Mode" (i.e. it behaves like several seperate instruments under one hood).

.... or am I missing another point that hinders you from using VE Pro?

Best,

[Michael C.]

@Michael C. said:

[...] If all instruments are loaded into VE and then send to the DAW, how do you record instruments separately?

Mike

Errr .... like it has been done since 30 years now - on MIDI tracks that are assigned to individual MIDI Ports / MIDI Channels of an instrument that receives MIDI data in "Multi Mode" (i.e. it behaves like several seperate instruments under one hood).

.... or am I missing another point that hinders you from using VE Pro?

Best,

[DG]

 Mike, I think that there is really only one thing you need to learn. How to use a multi timbral VSTi in Sonar. Once you know that, the rest is easy and the same (or virtually the same) for all DAWs. That is the part where non Sonar users can't help you.

DG

[Dietz]

@Michael C. said:

[...] DO NOT misinterpret my tone at times here. [...]

No offense taken, Mike - I'm just at a loss with your problem.

I just can't figure out how to find a meaningful way to explain how to use VE Pro to you, without using the proper terms. MIDI has been around for such a long time, it is the most basic concept behind any MIDI sequencer (as the name implies) - that's why it's a bit hard to give you advice that's both simple _and_ accurate at the same time without using its terminology.

Has the fellow Sonar-user been able to tell you what's so different about this DAW, that tried-and-tested MIDI concepts won't work? Would be good to know ...

BTW ... there are some nice tutorials available from the MIDI Manufacturers Association website, covering all the necessary basics: -> http://www.midi.org/aboutmidi/tutorials.php

Kind regards,

[Dietz]

[Off topic PS .... we returned to the usual, well-known modus operandi: DG is faster than me. :-D ...]

[DG]

@Dietz said:

[Off topic PS .... we returned to the usual, well-known modus operandi: DG is faster than me. 😄 ...]

 

 Hurrah. Normal business is resumed. [8-|]

DG.

[Michael C.]

Mike

[Paul]

Hi Mike,

We do not offer telephone support, but you can always call my colleagues at our US distributor, www.ilio.com, they do offer this service, and they´re MUCH better on the phone for sure! Here is their contact information.

I think you are seeing VE PRO a bit too complicated. There´s not much routing necessary:

1) You load your plug-ins.

2) You assign the MIDI PORT and MIDI Channel (on top of each channel in the mixer)

3) You assign MIDI tracks in Sonar that send MIDI information to the chosen MIDI PORT and MIDI Channel => assign Vienna Ensemble PRO on these tracks.

4) You can mix all these signals in VE PRO. Additionally, you CAN (but you don´t have to!) route multiple audio channels back to Sonar.

5) MIR PRO: You can use MIR PRO in the background of VE PRO, which means that your instruments will perform in a virtual hall. But that´s maybe the next step, after you have mastered VE PRO.

Hope that helps!

Best,

Paul

[Michael C.]

@Paul said:

Hi Mike, 

We do not offer telephone support, but you can always call my colleagues at our US distributor, www.ilio.com, they do offer this service, and they´re MUCH better on the phone for sure! Here is their contact information. 

Best,

Paul 

What a pity.  I was looking forward to talking to you!  I could accidently insult you in GERMAN in real time, noit just in email! [;)]

I will call the guys at Ilio - I forgot all aobut them..  They have helped me in the past and are very nice people.

Thanks again, Paul!!!!!!

[jgbsound]

Hi Mike,

If you still are having trouble with Vienna Instruments/ensemble and Sonar 8.5, shoot me an email and we can discuss it.  I was able to get my instances playing correctly (through trial and error) but it seems to be working great now.

Best,

John B
jbsoundman@gmail.com 

[Michael C.]

@jgbsound said:

Hi Mike,

If you still are having trouble with Vienna Instruments/ensemble and Sonar 8.5, shoot me an email and we can discuss it.  I was able to get my instances playing correctly (through trial and error) but it seems to be working great now.

Best,

John B
jbsoundman@gmail.com 

John,

I think I finally get it!  It took a while and then I also switched to Sonar X1 to add to my learning curve, but things are going well now.  Thanks for your offer and I am sure I'll hit a point when I'll take you up on it!

Mike

[Mike B Studios]

Way to hang in there Mike... Keep at it.