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  4. for a more realistic solo violin?

  • for a more realistic solo violin?

    E
    E

    Using the SE bundle (standard and plus):

    In the context of a trio for violin, bassoon and piano, the criticisms I've gotten have been mostly three:

    1. The present version is "too mellow" (I note that the sample has two velocity layers and I reduced the velocities of the louder beginning.) to sound like a real violin.

    2. It sounds like more than one instrument. (Maybe due to the added Space Designer reverb in Logic, I don't think VLS has its own reverb controllers or does it?

    3. The panning may be excessive? (I've tried to fix it.)

    Here is the current version of the file:

    http://www.egoldmidincd.com/inconnue_vsl.mp3
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB

    Hi Ed

    Yes your mix seems to be a bit out of the standard.

    How did you managed the matter "Reverb"?

    What effect got the Bassoon? It seems to be chorused or something with the phase is wrong. Maybe you routed it twice to the out put without your knowledge...?

    About effects

    1. In your case it is maybe enough to cut the low frequencies of all the instruments a bit with an EQ in each channel (Violin, Bassoon and Piano as well...) so that the instruments do not seem to be blowed up.

    2. Narrow the stereo signal of each instrument a bit to mono and pan then the violin more to the left, the piano to the centre and the bassoon a bit more to the right for example.

        (I believe the effect is called "DirMixer" within Logic - for narrowing the stereo width)

    3. Route all the instruments through a buss which holds a Spacedesigner-Effect.

    4. Choose a nice "concert hall preset" and increase the balance from dry to wet until you feel that it is enough.

    Voilà it should sound much more better than now.

    Have success!

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • E
    E

    Thanks again Beat,

    I've had to cut the reverb to almost nothing. Is this better?

    http://www.egoldmidincd.com/inconnue_vsl.mp3

    But I'm still hearing a "whooshing" sound in the violin and I don't know where that is coming from.

    And I'm not sure where the "concert hall presets", that you refer to, are.

    Ed
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB

    Hi Ed

    OK, the muddy reverb has passed away, nice.

    Maybe you did the jobs "shift to the right" and "shift to the left" a bit too good, now. [;)]

    But as always: It's a matter of taste.

    The whooshing sound of the violin can come from using the X-velocity function.

    While crossing from one into the other layer we get phasing effects. It sounds like we would have two violins - a small ensemble.

    We don't recognize this effect with ensemble articulations but unfortunately with solo instruments very well.

    And yes, specially with the violin and its sharp sound it can sound very "phasy".

    So that could be the reason... Another one I don't see at the moment.

    If it is so: Use the real dynamic diminuendos/crescendos of the solo violin (unfortunately only available with the full library).

    These are probably bad news. Sorry.

    Tip: Use the articulation "détaché short" or "staccato" for the short tones within your piece. The legato attack is too "weak" for short notes.

    About the concert hall-preset of Logic's reverb: I don't own Logic any more since version 5.5. (WIN-users bye bye).

    But I can't believe that all the effects of the current Logic version don't come with some factory presets.

    Click on all the "switches" within (the head?) of the Reverb for searching them.

    When you have found them then choose a similar to "concert hall".

    I remeber a preset with the "Platinumverb" called "small hall".

    Hope that helped a bit.

    Beat

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • E
    E
    last edited
    last edited

    Hello Beat,

    The newest Platinumverb is no longer a preset setup but you can adjust the various levels including room size.

    I've brought in the violin and piano and they can possibly be brought in some more but I think I'll now leave it alone for now. I did a pretty heavy tweak of this file this morning and think I can leave it now.

    I've saved the violin instrument in Logic and have started on another file using the same setup as in this one but edited the other strings (viola, cello, bass) The vocal part for countertenor used the Goldverb plugin but I adjusted it down to match the lower reverbs for the strings set up in Sound Designer.I'll send the link when I've tweaked it some more.

    Not sure what the X-Velocity function is but I don't think I've used it.

    @Beat Kaufmann said:

    Hi Ed

    OK, the muddy reverb has passed away, nice.

    Maybe you did the jobs "shift to the right" and "shift to the left" a bit too good, now. 

    But as always: It's a matter of taste.

    The whooshing sound of the violin can come from using the X-velocity function.

    While crossing from one into the other layer we get phasing effects. It sounds like we would have two violins - a small ensemble.

    We don't recognize this effect with ensemble articulations but unfortunately with solo instruments very well.

    And yes, specially with the violin and its sharp sound it can sound very "phasy".

    So that could be the reason... Another one I don't see at the moment.

    If it is so: Use the real dynamic diminuendos/crescendos of the solo violin (unfortunately only available with the full library).

    These are probably bad news. Sorry.

    Tip: Use the articulation "détaché short" or "staccato" for the short tones within your piece. The legato attack is too "weak" for short notes.

    About the concert hall-preset of Logic's reverb: I don't own Logic any more since version 5.5. (WIN-users bye bye).

    But I can't believe that all the effects of the current Logic version don't come with some factory presets.

    Click on all the "switches" within (the head?) of the Reverb for searching them.

    When you have found them then choose a similar to "concert hall".

    I remeber a preset with the "Platinumverb" called "small hall".

    Hope that helped a bit.

    Beat

    Many thanks for your help.

    Ed
  • W
    W

     There is one way to create a realistic solo violin and that is with extensive use of dynamic samples as well as legato and sul legato.  You simply cannot do anything expressive without them.  It will sound fake if you control dynamics with either crossfade or mere volume/expression.    To re-create the sound of a violin solo is the single hardest thing to do with MIDI besides the human voice.
  • civilization 3C
    civilization 3C

    I agree with having the samples that are dynamic in the first place. In VSL-land the first thing is 'performance interval', eg., 'performance legato', additionally supplied by the appropriate articulations by a switch. 

    It is exceedingly difficult to fully fake a crescendo on a sustained note where you don't have that in the sample. The more exposed it is the least likely you'll convince.
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    last edited
    last edited

    To the original poster: Edward, have you seen this demonstration video by Guy Bacos already ... ? It shows very nicely how the articulations are meant to be used.

    HTH,

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • E
    E

    Thanks Dietz,

    I did see it or something like it on YouTube, though I think I understand it a little better now. But I'm still very much a beginner to this kind of pre-recorded sampling.

    I've been choosing samples in the simplest way possible up to now and haven't yet gotten as far as the matrix setups which that demo seems to use, though I've somewhat mastered keyswitches to change the articulations.

    Ed