Mac Mini Server and MIR

[Errikos]

How do the tech-guys in VSL and users here feel about a Mac Mini Server that would host MIR Pro on the one 750 GB 7200 RPM hard-drive and some VI on the identical other, both in a RAID 0 configuration and with 16 GB of RAM? Do you think it would make for a fair slave machine to a main Mac running Logic? Better alternatives for around the same price (~€1500 including a Samsung 24" screen), preferably in an Apple world but not necessarily?

I take it the 'DirectX 10-capable video card with support for OpenGL 2.1' Further Requirement applies to PC users only, right?

A timely reply would be greatly appreciated as I am under pressure whether to order one in the next few days or not.

Thanks.

[Cyril Blanc]

You do not need a screen for the Macmini, you use VNC on the Master Mac

@Errikos said:

How do the tech-guys in VSL and users here feel about a Mac Mini Server that would host MIR Pro on the one 750 GB 7200 RPM hard-drive and some VI on the identical other, both in a RAID 0 configuration and with 16 GB of RAM? Do you think it would make for a fair slave machine to a main Mac running Logic? 

Thanks.

What Mac do you own ?

[Errikos]

The extra screen is going to help me score (it works on portrait mode).

The proposed Mac Mini Server would complement a fully specd. 27" iMac with one 2TB drive. I need to know whether the (again fully specd.) Mac Mini RAIDed with the two conventional drives as abovementioned will handle MIR PRO and VE PRO 5 with some VIs. SSD in it is not an option since it raises the price considerably. 

Thanks for any help.

[MS]

It would make much more sense to go with a PC with i7-2700k instead, for the same money you'd get double the performance.

[Cyril Blanc]

What are the caracteristics of your Imac ?

MIR is F.A.B.U.L.O.U.S but it is a CPU and a disk exterminator, spécially if you are in 5.1 or in 7.1, what are your plans : stereo, 5.1, 7.1 .......? 

Today it is difficult to build a configuration with MIR PRO as they are still a few bugs left, it will depends on how big are your orchestrations, how big is your template.

One thing that is quite bad is you buy MIR for one computer at a time, so if you chose the wrong computer to run your MIR you are f...... you have to buy a second license of MIR and split your orchestra !!!!! and that is not the idea of MIR

Last version of VI 2 did fix a few bugs, now we have to wait for next version of VE to see if it is fixing the last problems and to find out what are the limits of  configurations.

When all the bugs will be fixed we will be able to some trial on how you organize your setup.

There are  4 solutions

Your DAW + VE (with VI and other) + MIR on the same computer 

Your DAW with other + VE and VI and audio input + MIR on the same computer

Your DAW with other on master ; on slave VE and VI and audio input + MIR 

Your DAW  on master ;  on slave VE and VI and others + MIR

If I was you I will wait a bit 

the way MIR is working :

Correct me if I am wrong :

DAW ===> VE === VI =====> MIR ======> back to your DAW===> to your amplifier

- One thing I dont understand is that VSL does not propose a possibility  in VE that does not return the sound to the DAW and allow the bouncing

The way MIR is design ;  it is THE FINAL STAGE ! why returning back to the DAW ? you just need to add the bouncing in VE

Best

Cyril 

[Errikos]

Thank you Martin, I'll keep you suggestion under advisement, for it is quite a considerable claim that you make, worth of serious consideration.

And thank you Cyril: As great as the iMac is (3.4 GHz i7, 16 GB RAM, one 2 TB HD, 2 GB GRAM), obviously it cannot handle everything (I doubt a single Mac Pro could either), so I was thinking it would house Sibelius, Logic Studio, and the Pro Edition (maybe even some other Kontakt-triggered libraries), and a Mac Mini Server would handle MIR PRO and my SE+Extended VIs, the EW choirs (and maybe those aforementioned Kontakt libraries - whatever's best). I take it both would run VE PRO 5. I appreciate your advice to wait, but of the solutions you proposed, I take it this is the one available to me?

Any additional comments would be most welcome.

[Cyril Blanc]

you did not answer, Stereo of 5.1 or 7.1 ?

Good guess : what is more powerfull you Imac or the MacMini ? did you look at benchmarks ?

Did you understand that the Mac that is handling VE/MIR is doing all the work ?

If I look at my test piece in 7.1 using IAC on my 12 core/24 threads, Logic is using 60 % it is only sending midi to the VE/MIR and receiving the audio back from VE/MIR, VE+MIR is using up to 1500 % 

VE+MIR is one process it is puting all the load on the CPU

If you put some instruments(EXS, Kontakt...) in Logic you will need to send them as Audio Input tracks to VE/MIR

SO IT IS THE MOST POWERFULL COMPUTER THAT MUST HANDLE VE/VI/AI/MIR

I really dont know if a Macmini or an I7 could do the job 

[Errikos]

@Cyril said:

SO IT IS THE MOST POWERFULL COMPUTER THAT MUST HANDLE VE/VI/AI/MIR

Got it. I didn't know that. It shows you how much I understand about engineering... I do stereo tracks by the way (do you get asked for 7.1 a lot?), and I've always worked with one computer with an external drive for VIs.

Anyway, I'd like to understand the workflow since I've never used two computers in tandem (or MIR for that matter). Say I wish to EQ a VI. If it's to be streamed from the slave computer (VE/MIR) to the master (DAW), am I right in thinking:

a) Logic would trigger the sequenced event,

b) the slave would then stream the sample into Logic, the sample would be EQed,

c) it would then go back to the slave for MIR positioning/reverb (for one would like to EQ the raw sample, no?),

d) then it would again go back to Logic for master output monitoring / bouncing. All this through VE.

Is that it? It sounds like quite a bit of back/forward traffic for real-time recording, or even full playback for automation, compressing, etc.

[Cyril Blanc]

@Errikos said:

a) Logic would trigger the sequenced event,

b) the slave would then stream the sample into Logic, the sample would be EQed,

c) it would then go back to the slave for MIR positioning/reverb (for one would like to EQ the raw sample, no?),

d) then it would again go back to Logic for master output monitoring / bouncing. All this through VE.

How it is working :

MASTER :

a) Logic sends the midi note to the slave *  and **

SLAVE :

b) the slave converts the midi note to sample, if you need to EQ you will add an EQ in the VE Mixer (you can EQ, before or after sending it to MIR)

c) then VE will send the sample to MIR positioning/reverb (MIR is an Insert in VE Mixer)

d) All VI and AI are mixed in VE

e) The stereo or the 5.1 signal is send back to Logic

MASTER

 The Master can output monitoring / bouncing. 

* That is why there is very little process on the Master

  There is a problem with Logic is that this is done by one process and that process go quickly on overload if Logic/VE/MIR are on the same computer 

** if you want to use an EXS or other without sending it to MIR, today it is out of sync

Voilà

Cyril

[Errikos]

Thanks for the information.

@Another User said:

** if you want to use an EXS or other without sending it to MIR, today it is out of sync

Well! I hope VSL is working on that! Anyway, I was planning to send the EXS instruments to MIR as well (through VE), so I take it there will be no synchronization issues there.

Bonne nuit.

[Cyril Blanc]

@Another User said:

 I was planning to send the EXS instruments to MIR as well (through VE), so I take it there will be no synchronization issues there.

We are waiting for a fix there too !

[Errikos]

So you can't use any of the transformative functions of the host sequencer on any single track when you work with MIR? Only automation on single tracks and compression/limiting for the master track?

[Dietz]

@Errikos said:

So you can't use any of the transformative functions of the host sequencer on any single track when you work with MIR? Only automation on single tracks and compression/limiting for the master track?

I'm not sure that I understood your question correctly, but Cyril tried to point out that Logic's "plugins" like its Channel EQ actually ain't real AU-plugins but part of the application. This is why you can't use Logic buil-in FX in any other host. Of course you can use all other AU-plugins within VE Pro and MIR Pro.

Apart from that, you can always use either audio inputs of VE Pro / MIR Pro to route pre-precessed audio signals into it, or you use seperated outputs from VE pro / MIR Pro to get back individual signals into Logic for further processing.

... did you already try MIR Pro's demo version? Many questions would answer themselves, I think. 😉

HTH,

[Errikos]

What I was trying to ascertain Dietz (since I haven't worked with MIR), is whether someone that decides to work with MIR has to forego all the host DAW's power functions (EQ was just an example, I meant all the multifarious and sophisticated plug-ins that are offered in programs like Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools, etc.), and purchase separate stand-alone AU plug-ins that must also be run in the slave computer (for workflow reasons). If I understand things correctly, then Logic's usage is henceforth limited to the Arrange Page, it becomes merely a sequencer (like Master Tracks used to be), to be used only for Automation and final Bounce. Do I have this right? I apologize for my comparative lack of understanding of how these things work.

If that is the case, I don't see why VSL doesn't go the last few hundred meters of the distance and provide us with an all-in-one solution with its own "DAW" (as I first suggested a year ago), you've already toyed with the idea (that "sequencer" in the new VI PRO); if the above is correct, all that remains for you to integrate are things like automation, quantization, global tracks, nothing fancy...

[Cyril Blanc]

Hello Dietz

> Apart from that, you can always use either audio inputs of VE Pro / MIR Pro to route pre-precessed audio signals into it, or you use seperated outputs from VE pro / MIR Pro to get back individual signals into Logic for further processing.

I dont understand how you can do this, if you have set to 5.1, you have 6 outs, that all   

Also

Can you make a point of what is still needing a fix and an expected date ?

- Exs or other Inst in Logic out of sync if going directly to the main out

- Audio Input not relyable

- Using VI in Logic 

- Event input, still hanging notes with last VI 2

- NRPN ?

- ....???????????

A little question : what are the differences between MIR and MIR PRO ?

Thanks

Best

Cyril

[Dietz]

@Another User said:

If that is the case, I don't see why VSL doesn't go the last few hundred meters of the distance and provide us with an all-in-one solution with its own "DAW" (as I first suggested a year ago), you've already toyed with the idea (that "sequencer" in the new VI PRO); if the above is correct, all that remains for you to integrate are things like automation, quantization, global tracks, nothing fancy...

That's more the last hundred miles rather than just meters. 😊 - It has been pointed out already several times that VSL has no plans currently to go that route.

 Kind regards,

[Cyril Blanc]

Hello Dietz

Would you kind enought to reply also to my questions

Best

Cyril

[Dietz]

HiCyril,

it's sometimes hard to figure our what you're asking for, but I'll give it a try nonethless -

@Another User said:

 A little question : what are the differences between MIR and MIR PRO ?

Big answer to a little question: Please read the Vienna MIR PRO Upgrader's Manual for all details - they're covered in depth there.

HTH,

[Errikos]

Dietz, I have to think about all this; I hope you don't mind if I picked up this discussion again when I decide to dive into the MIR world, for I have a couple more practical questions. However, having observed Cyril's and your answers, now is not the time to pose them.

[Dietz]

You're welcome, Errikos. Like i said before - the most meaningful way to get a feel for MIR Pro and its possibilities is to try the 30 days demo version. The manuals of the application itself and for all the RoomPacks are also available as a free download from your VSL User Area.

Kind regards,