I disagree with your statement that "the software functions exactly as it should". The VEP5 marketing and product page boasted "Up to 48 MIDI input ports for ALL plugin standards (including AU & VST)" — it did *not* mention the required second half of the sentence, "Providing Logic users can afford to spend several weeks sifting through forum posts in order to figure out why an obscure workaround doesn't do what it should".

I've created a very simple Logic session that wasn't behaving as expected and sent it to VSL support. After two weeks with no reply I asked for news and the reply can essentially be summed up as "Ah, the Logic issue. Yes, well, we're working on it."

Logic, you know, that obscure and marginal DAW that nobody's heard of before.

However, I also strongly disagree with someone's post (elsewhere on these forums) qualifying VSL's products as crap. I've been working with VSL and VEP4 for a long time with essentially zero problems and I always found VSL's creativity very interesting to dig into. This is *precisely* the reason I paid for the VEP5 instantly, without even waiting for early adopters to test it beforehand. It's a good thing I did not install it on my main DAW. But the bottom line is that I shelled out over 100 euros only because I was interested in the MIDI ports feature, which is evidently *not* working as expected. Tricking Logic into something it was not designed to do and then blaming Logic for its single-processor issue isn't really a solution. That maddening problem with Logic has been known for a long, long time.

I'm still using VEP4 which is as stable as any piece of software can possibly be. I'm just very, very disappointed.

I agree the current IO plugin workaround is not ideal, but it is clearly explained that this needs to be used in the manual which you could have read prior to purchasing. Since you are aware of this as a maddening problem my advice would then have been not to purchase. 

That said VSL please do better then the IO plugin Logic workaround. 

Thank you for the retrospective and condescending advice, but the Logic project I've sent to VSL is an example where a simple Environment setup is apparently incompatible with the VEP5 workaround despite having nothing to do with the Logic CPU issue.

@Chris Benstead said:

I agree the current IO plugin workaround is not ideal, but it is clearly explained that this needs to be used in the manual which you could have read prior to purchasing. Since you are aware of this as a maddening problem my advice would then have been not to purchase. 

That said VSL please do better then the IO plugin Logic workaround. 

That's true, but as far as I remember the manual doesn't say that all the processing load will be redirected to one (and only one) core. It's too much for big projects.

Come on, VSL guys, we need a nice Xmas present[;)]

It does work as long as you have an i/o plugin on every track.  What I am running into now is automation.  If don't pick 'use for automation' in the Even Input plugins then I can control everything from the main VEP plugin.  If I select 'Use For Automation' then it only allows automation from the last Event Input plugin I did that on.  

That's how the "Use for automation" function works. You can only use automation on one of the Event Input plugins or the Server Interface plugin itself. The function really only exists because automation from the Server Interface will cause artifacts when bouncing in Logic. 

@Karel said:

That's how the "Use for automation" function works. You can only use automation on one of the Event Input plugins or the Server Interface plugin itself. The function really only exists because automation from the Server Interface will cause artifacts when bouncing in Logic. 

Ah okay I misunderstood the manual.  I thought it meant that every plugin had to have it turned on.  

Chris

I have tested yesterday the VSL input with VE PRO 5/MIR

It is working with one input only !! 

When I add another input none of the input is playing a sound

I have send a report to the support mail

Best

Cyril

Put a I/O Utility plugin on the Logic track that has the VE Pro Server Interface plugin as well. This is actually an error in the manual which will be corrected soon.

@Karel said:

Put a I/O Utility plugin on the Logic track that has the VE Pro Server Interface plugin as well. This is actually an error in the manual which will be corrected soon.

Hello Karel,

Thanks for the trick, It was that, now the inputs are working.

Best

Cyril

VERY GOOD NEW

I did a trial with IAC

The use of IAC and VSL AU is spliting the traffic, with the test I have done so far no more crackles no more hanging notes.

Logic uses now 2 CPU (1 and 12th)

Can somebody to another trial (dont forget to assign your input object to a monitor object)

Offline bouncing will not work though using IAC. We're working on a superior solution for this problem for the next update which will also allow offline bouncing in Logic.

@Karel said:

Offline bouncing will not work though using IAC. We're working on a superior solution for this problem for the next update which will also allow offline bouncing in Logic.

Hello Karel,

With MIR you don't need bouncing tracks as you work directly on the MIX. The IAC is like the VSL Event midi, just sending the Midi to VSL, the audio that return from MIR does not change, it is using the VSL AU

Karel, did you also fix the 5.1 and 7.1 problem with Logic, why don't you send us a beta ? so we have our VSL caviar to eat for the 31th [;)]

A question about MIR

Is MIR condidered to be an INSERT ?

I had a discussion with Martin about the LFE, the LFE is made to output sound under 120hz, the 5 strings double bass can go down to 41 HZ

How are you dealing with the LFE if you use MIR ; as those sounds are also needing the reverberation of the hall

The entry to MIR is in mono or in stereo !!!

you need to route a 3rd signal for the LFE to MIR or extract frequencies under 120hz to send it to the LFE

Wish you all the best for 2012, if you could speak to the Logic devellopers and say we desesperatly need and equivalent to the VST MAP

Best

Cyril

A side-note regarding music mixes in surround:

It is a widely accepted convention amongst mixing engineers that the LFE shouldn't be used for actual signals in music. LFE means "Low Frequency Extension" or "Low Frequency Effects" and shouldn't be considered as the "subwoofer channel".

This means that the five (or seven) surround speakers should be addressed as full-range monitors. If a monitoring system really needs bass-management, this should be taken care for locally and not within the mix.

Kind regards,

Hi Dietz,

If you play on your double bass  or from your organ pedal board a note under 120 Hz you will not hear it as the 5 or the 7 speakers do no go under 120 HZ

The home teather system does no have big 38 cm speakers to produce the bass

If you read http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/zz-_Shared_Assets/English_PDFs/Professional/38_LFE.pdf

That is the reference for Dolby

The LFE channel is the 6th or the 8th channel

read also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-frequency_effects

Why you have 5.1 or 7.1 effects in Logic and in MIR you have only 5.0 and in 7.0

Why do you have 5.1 and LFE control in VEP 5 and not in MIR

If MIR cannot deal with 5.1 or 7.1 I have no use of it I want a refund

Best

Cyril

As Dietz correctly noted, bass management in the playback system is responsible of dividing energy between the speakers and the subwoofer. You should *not* use the LFE in your mix, unless there is something very specific, like cannon shots or in extreme cases the Gran Casa, for effect purposes.

Cyril, you should read this before you start making your usual accusations again.

-> Recommended Practice (Surround Sound Forum)

Some quotes:

@Another User said:

p.10:

3. Reproduction configurations: advice on installation and use

3.1 Reference configuration

[...]
For setting up the five loudspeakers, an arrangement in accordance with figure 4, on the basis of the recommendations
in ITU-R BS. 775-1 [1], and SMPTE [2] is recommended. This principle reproduction
standard is totally independent on the applied transmission system and recording processes, and should
not be confused with the different coding formats which are only partially standardized [...]

1 L Left Yellow
2 R Right Red
3 C Center Orange
4 Optional LFE and/or free available Grey
5 LS Left Surround Signal Blue
6 RS Right Surround Signal Green
7 Free available Optional, e.g. left with 2/0 Violett
8 Free available Optional, e.g. right with 2/0 Brown

In other words: The recommended setup is L R C Lfe Ls Rs.

... food for thought ...

Cyril, taking into account that you're a Logic user, you should read this, too:

-> Logic Documentation

... you can clearly see that even Apple knows that the "offcial" ITU-channel order is L R C Lfe Ls Rs - it's just that they have decided deliberately to use a different implementation as default setting.

Hello Dietz and Martin,

Calm down, we are just speaking, I am not making any accusation, just trying to find a solution

There are a solution to all problems.

 I have a Denon AVR 3808, it is a 7.1 system for just watching TV, if I turn off the LFE the sound if very weak, no bass

When I did the trials I was told that 5.1 did not work and only 5.0 was working because Logic sending a wrong code back to the AU and you where speaking with Logic people to fix this. I was never told that I cannot have 5.1 in MIR

I follow the rules of Dolby that is saying you must sperate the bass channel to avoid distorsion and to play sound under 120 on the LFE

I dot make accusation, just allow MIR to route basses to the LFE, and I am happy or refund me of MIR

I have not spend so much money to have a reverberation that is inferior than the one that is in Logic

It is very easy to write a little pluging that does what is done in VEP5 for 5.1 panning, this to route some of the signal of the bass instruments and apply it the reverberation of the hall and send the signal to Logic so the track can be processed with the other 5 tracks to code this in Dolby

I am open to any solution as soon I have a MIR 5.1 out

Thanks in advance to find a solution

Best

Cyril

@Cyril said:

[...]

I dot make accusation, just allow MIR to route basses to the LFE, and I am happy or refund me of MIR [...]

You obviously didn't read (or don't want to understand) what both Martin and I were trying to explain.

I suggest you get in contact with to have your MIR Pro license removed from your account and to arrange the refund you're requesting.

Regards,