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Albion blends quite beautifully with VSL IMO.
Thank you!! I've been wanting feedback on that. Good to hear! VSL and Spitfire are the only two orchestral companies to ever impress me sound-wise so I eventually plan to own Spitfire's Albion and percussion libraries soon enough. But I have limited myself entirely to wait until VE5 cause I can't make up my mind on anything lately. [*-)]
-Sean
@mike connelly said:
Did I have a post deleted on this thread or did it just not get posted for whatever reason? Weird.
Something must have gone wrong while your message was sent to the server. If a message gets deleted on purpose, the forum's engine would inform you with a mail to your user account.
Kind regards,
There is no question that VSL samples are top. But I do believe it has some issues in the final mix when VSL is used as a stand alone orchestra. My observation doesn't deal with the quality of the samples but the spacing of the orchestral sound. I may suggest VSL to use more omni microphones when recording intead of cardiod. There is this one little upgrade fix that VSL need to do and they are undisputable number one
dsilvercoin,
First, sorry pal but this is a long reply from a long winded guy. Second, I've replied assuming you're going to use this for film or t.v. scoring scenarios, whether mockup or production use.
Long term investment and believability (realism in sound) are always the most important traits to any library for me. VSL and Spitfire are the ONLY two libraries that have ever lived up to my standards for realism. With that in mind, one cannot ignore that Spitfire has a highly restrictive license and libraries. The expensive stuff requires that you regularly hire performers (which my being in the 'I'm pursuing a career' stage in my life, does not function within their policy). The affordible stuff has a good sound, but 1) It's nothing I can't obtain from VSL. It's just a good 'out of the box' sound, meaning less tweaking required. Also, 2) that 'less tweaking' point is paramount to me. The lower cost libraries offer no flexibility and very limited articulations. One can only make something sound believable with such limitations.
Another point is software. Spitfire has no desire to persue software development. While I used to love Kontakt (and still find occasional uses for it), Vienna Instruments Pro 1.0 blew Kontakt out of the water. It truly was a night and day difference for my productivity and ease of use. Yes, there was a learning curve. To get my samples sounding how I want, I had to put forth a bit of hard work and effort. But now that I do, my only owning the Special Edition, SE Strings Plus, Fanfare Trumpets, and Epic Horns dwarf any other library's ability to sound real. VI Pro 2.0 is now out and it is even more phenominal. The enveloped time stretching has given me tremolo and trill possibilities previously unavailable. I now have performances that no other library can even acheive.
By all means, Spitfire is good. If you want quick and easy and one style only, I'd say go for it. But if you want to actually write anything according to your composing choices, style, and so on- AND if you want to write for multiple styles of music... I'd say VSL is the far more logical choice. In the end all of those points boil down to investment to me. My priority is VSL. Why? Because I can do anything with it and sound better than any other library available. Because I am not limited by wet samples. Because their software allows for far more productive approaches than Kontakt could ever dream.
In the end, it's better to own both, everything even. It's even better to record real performances. But for the time and money, it's VSL. For the flexibility and quality of sound, it's VSL. I may sound a bit too VSL fanboy-ish but it is only because of my good experience. I could care less about asthetics and simpleton way that some companies approach things. I care about function above all else. VSL functions best imo. So the cost is far more justified.
Hopefully that helps,
-Sean
P.S. I had a friend explain how much he loved Hollywood Strings. I explained that 'There is no such thing as a Hollywood Cello'. What one needs in the industry is not the same sound that everyone else is producing. No one wants that. What they want is the ability to do that sound, other sounds, richer, darker, louder, and every other kind of sound one can imagine. When in film scores I hear dry, wet, and every other combination of everything out there... I can't help but remember that VSL is dry, and no one else really is. I can do both, they can't. That may seem like a simple answer, but in the end... what is more effective and what is going to give you the flexibility you need to produce anything asked of you?
That's a good post. VSL has a depth of sound that has a truly lasting value since its based on great musical quality. Even the old First Edition instruments are still used all the time. But another part of this last post that is very true is the software aspect. I also use Kontakt, EW, Play, used to do Gigastudio, etc. But as soon as Vienna Ensemble/Instruments came out I completely adapted to it and now all the other systems are so clumsy in comparison I don't want to bother with them unless I have to - which is basically never. There is an elegant quality to the VSL software that is perfect for selecting and using samples in any way you can dream of.
... a Hollywood cello! I love it. Now what I really need is a Hollywood Tuba.
dsilvercoin,
Spitfire has some great stuffs, but the low budget line they offer to the general audience comes not even close to what VSL offers. Spitfire's top line is probably the best out there but 18k for a bundle of strings... too pricey... add the ridiculous restriction rules on top of that.
People are fed up with EastWest company for many different reasons but I advise you to check out their latest products, Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass. They are of a different level, nothing like the old EastWest products.
VSL still offers the widest range of instruments
regards
@Dietz said:
More cowbell, anybody ...?
lol, what's sad is that if VSL produced an alpen horn, you bet I'd buy it!
1) Because I've actually played one in Switzerland (not that this really justifies anything)
2) Because I'm fairly sure the original William Tell Overature actually have an Alpen horn in it. If Rossini can do it, so can I!!
Now I better scedaddle also before VSL deletes my account for getting even more dull on here [|-)]
I own all the Spitfire "Commercial Line" (low priced) libraries. They're very nice, and I expect to get a lot of use out of them. They have a unique sound. That said, they do not approach my VSL libraries in terms of number of articulations, number of dynamic ranges, or fit and finish (not to say that looser performances don't sometimes have a certain charm, but you really want a perfect performance in your toolk kit first). VSL is far ahead in this department.
I see things like Spitfire's Albion, Solo Strings, Harp and Percussion as things that one would add for more variety after you already had the VSL libraries (and in fact, they say that themselves). Otherwise, you're going to come up short when you need articulations that the Spitfire commercial line libraries just don't have.
I'd be interested to see what those really expensive Spitfire libraries are like, but I can't justify the price tag. I'd be pretty sure, though, that more care and effort has gone into VSL (and EW) products, just because of the economy of scale.
@dsilvercoin said:
Is it safe to assume there a VSL bias in the VSL forum, or is it as good as everyone is saying
lol, by all means a valid question. I like spitfire a lot. I've never said that of any other library. DVZ, Garritan, Cinematic, WIVI, EWQL, LASS, Miroslav, and so on... all have commendable traits and weakpoints. I generally find that the pro's are never enough and ultimately the quality is seriously lacking. I wouldn't have invested my money into VSL had I not seriously given it heavy consideration. So yes, I love VSL's product. But I also love Spitfire's stuff. I think it sounds phenominal and is the only real competitor to VSL, imo. So by all means I don't just favor VSL. I really like both oferrings. But every last word from every last user on this thread, regarding the flexability of VSL, is absolutely spot on accurate. That is the primary difference you would find between both library's.
It is true what Lee Blaske said on here. Spitfire does even state on their own site that they do not offer a full library in their commercial products. But that their baseline offerings are primarily best used as add-ons to your existing library.
As far as how to approach buying VSL if you think VSL will serve your needs best...
I bought the Special Edition cause it's all I could afford. However, after using it for a while- I was surprized to find that I want more of things I wouldn't have thought previously. I want more strings all around, I only want the brass sections completely right now, and woodwinds I want sections first, then solo instruments. This is all based on my owning the Special Edition though. If I started without that, I'd go an entirely different route. I prefer the SE route first though. It's a good way to get to know the library and it gives you a good starting point to add from and still have a wide ranging base.
Although every one of us is different and would likely do approach the library in our own way. The most important thing I personally would recommend is Vi Pro 2.0 - As much as I love this library's sound, this piece of software has made my life MUCH easier.
Hopefully that helps you. It's certainly MY experience, so one might call that bias. But my experience doesn't neglect anyone. If anyone ever came out with a library I actually thought was better, I'd buy it. I don't love samples. I love real performers. When I have them, I'll almost exclusively use them, unless when it is better not to, or when additional work is useful. So I'm not glue'd to VSL in that very real sense. But by the current offerings, I see no other choice.
Regarding whether SE would be worth it or not... What can be done with SE dwarfs other companies full library's imo. (With the exception of the full private Spitfire range anyway).
-Sean
P.S. On the bias point. This forum sees people ask what you have from time to time. And each time, several people reply. By all means, VSL owners are happy with VSL. [:D]
-Sean
People always say you can get pretty much any sound of of VSL Ochestral Strings but I have never heard a demo that comes anywhere close to the sound and style of Albion out of the box. They are just very different. Granted, Albion is far more limited but if you need and like that sound it's really awesome imo. Appassionata was real cool too but I found the playability kind of off, very jumpy in the dynamics.
My favorite VSL samples are the Solo Strings.
dsilvercoin,
First, it's true the comment replies you read will sound VSL biased. I will try to be as non biased I can be trying to match what you are looking for. You mentioned that you have a limited budget. So based on that information, your best choice as for now is the VSL Special Edition. You will need to get the "extended" articulation to get something real going. Now, as far as demos goes, VSL frankly post as many demos as possible and not necesarily coming from top pro midi sequencers. So you will listen a lot of crappy demos. Secondly, websites like Spitfire and Eastwest (I'm only talking about the Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass demos) have limited demo songs and done by top notch guys. These guys they are experts on MIDI sequencing, audio engineers and composers at the same time. So good luck if you want your demos sound like the ones on their website. It will require you countless hours, and most importantly, ur knowledge of how an orchestral instrument sound and blend as an ensemble in real life
dsilvercoin, (continued)
now, if you compare general demo sound between Spitfire and VSL, it's like night and day IMO. Spitfire accomplished the "analog" sound that lots of people love. Most classical engineers call that the "Herbert Von Karajan" sound of the late 1960's and early 1970's. VSL tried to pioneer that sound years earlier but they did it with a different formula that didn't work that well IMO. The closest to Spitfire sound is the new Hollywood Strings and Hollywood Brass from East West. Check them out, it's nothing like the old EW products. Spitfire is really cool but it's too limited for my taste. Just notice that all it comes down to your budget
dsilvercoin,
Just to give you another insite. Check VSL Demo's from the Classical section "Barber: Adagio for Strings" and "Holst: Jupiter." They are the best demos from VSL. If you know these works, you would say it comes very close to a real orchestra. I honestly don't like any other demos from VSL website
